Did eren need zeke?

ktg said:
You don't really need to think about it. S4 has many plot holes that make no sense. Isayama gave up being consistent and always went with the bigger plot twists even if it made no sense.

dk107_ said:
Yes, Eren needed Zeke during the entire Rumbling just like when they were in paths before because Zeke being of royal blood was the connection between Eren and Ymir. This is why the Rumbling stopped with Zeke's death.

You are correct on the point of Ymir giving the full power to Eren but Eren doesn't have royal blood which is a very important thing in AoT. He had unlocked the founder's full power but Zeke's presence was still necessary for the Rumbling.

Also, about how he was able to transform in the colossal titan form, then that is because of the founding titan which he has. FT allows the ability of titan creation to its user. And as we know that Eren had unlocked the FT's full power, which is why he was able to transform again in the end.

DerpySven said:
i dont think u get my point. i know the whole thing abt royal blood ofc. but like eren said ymir isnt a good or a slave she made her own choice to choose for eren. so they sided thats why my question is if zeke was still relevant at that point.

Jay_Burson-510 said:
Glad someone raises this question because I want to ask another question that has been bugging me ever since I realized it. WHY THE FUCK DID ZEKE NOT JUST KILL HIMSELF BEFORE TO STOP THE RUMBLING IF ALL IT TOOK WAS JUST KILLING THE REAL BODY. BRO COULD HAVE LITERALLY SPAWNED HIMSELF IN THE FOOT OF THE EREN TITAN TO KILL HIMSELF OR BETTER YET, FUCKING KILL HIMSELF WITH HIS OWN HANDS.

And I know many are gonna say "If Armin didn't convince him that life is precious, he would've let it slide". My response to that is simple, Zeke was never supportive of Eren's decision and actively sought out to prevent it. From what we saw before the rumbling, the reason Zeke was unable to stop was because he was overpowered by Eren through Ymir. He can't leave, he can't do anything. SO HOW DOES IT MAKE SENSE THAT ZEKE WAS ABLE TO FREE HIMSELF AT THE END. AND BEFORE YOU SAY BECAUSE THE OTHER TITAN USERS IN THE PATHS HELPED HIM, WHAT STOPPED THEM BEFORE FROM HELPING THEM. WHAT THE FUCK. THEY SOMEHOW MADE US CONVINCE THAT A SHITTY ASS FRANKLY UNDERWHELMING SPEECH ABOUT LIFE WAS ENOUGH TO BREAK EREN AND YMIR'S HOLD ON THEM.

Now another explanation is that oh that was Ymir's intervention, having allowed them to be free at that exact moment. To that I say, I would take any other explanation other than that because honestly, if that is the real reason, then this show literally has no stakes at that point.

Jay_Burson-510 said:
Glad someone raises this question because I want to ask another question that has been bugging me ever since I realized it. WHY THE FUCK DID ZEKE NOT JUST KILL HIMSELF BEFORE TO STOP THE RUMBLING IF ALL IT TOOK WAS JUST KILLING THE REAL BODY. BRO COULD HAVE LITERALLY SPAWNED HIMSELF IN THE FOOT OF THE EREN TITAN TO KILL HIMSELF OR BETTER YET, FUCKING KILL HIMSELF WITH HIS OWN HANDS.

And I know many are gonna say "If Armin didn't convince him that life is precious, he would've let it slide". My response to that is simple, Zeke was never supportive of Eren's decision and actively sought out to prevent it. From what we saw before the rumbling, the reason Zeke was unable to stop was because he was overpowered by Eren through Ymir. He can't leave, he can't do anything. SO HOW DOES IT MAKE SENSE THAT ZEKE WAS ABLE TO FREE HIMSELF AT THE END. AND BEFORE YOU SAY BECAUSE THE OTHER TITAN USERS IN THE PATHS HELPED HIM, WHAT STOPPED THEM BEFORE FROM HELPING THEM. WHAT THE FUCK. THEY SOMEHOW MADE US CONVINCE THAT A SHITTY ASS FRANKLY UNDERWHELMING SPEECH ABOUT LIFE WAS ENOUGH TO BREAK EREN AND YMIR'S HOLD ON THEM.

Now another explanation is that oh that was Ymir's intervention, having allowed them to be free at that exact moment. To that I say, I would take any other explanation other than that because honestly, if that is the real reason, then this show literally has no stakes at that point.

ktg said:
@DerpySven Like I said, there are several one.
For example, the rumbling shouldn't have started. To start it, you need the founding titan's power. And we know that the titan power is in the shifter's body, not in his head.
If you remember when Levi attacked Reiner and almost cut off his head, Reiner had to transfer his consciousness into his body, because you need the consciousness and the titan power to turn into a titan. Therefore when Zeke touched Eren's head, there wasn't any titan power in that head, that was a regular head.
And in S4, there are like 10 things I could easily question, because made no sense.

1Toxic2 said:

it's true that zeke could've killed himself but i think what happened was .. zeke simply didn't and expressed why he doesn't want to because as he was talking to armin he basically said but "why are you trying to save them ? we all die someday " and also mentioned that "the moment before death might just bring peace or some shit" because let's be real here zeke was also just trying to exterminate every single eldian so that the wouldn't have to suffer again and "everyone would be happy" while what eren did was a violent but still kind of the same goal zeke had which is *kill all the people on the other side so there is no war anymore* .. but we all know that's just not how it goes and it's shown clearly in the ending

Jay_Burson-510 said:

True, but his hatred didn't extend to the entire human race. While it does imply in the paths that he does not care about human life, why would he let Eren kill everyone in the outside world when he could literally stop it anytime.

I do kinda see your point that Zeke literally was just intimidated by Eren and Ymir that he let them do as they please as nothing matters anymore to him at thaat point. I still don't find it satisfying, and I still dislike the idea that Armin's little pep talk was enough to make him save the world. Like I get that his ideas where in direct opposition to Zeke's philosophies but how did that make him think that other people should have the right to live or that he should still do something at this point considering who Zeke is. Like almost everything in this ending, it doesn't contradict anything but, it could've been way better than this.