| Hey everyone! To start off, here are some questions for the sake of discussion: If you made a manga/ comic, what would your first page (and the following few pages, if you want to go that far) look like? And if you already have started working on one, what does it look like? What does your thought process look like? ~ A topic I've been interested in lately is the importance of a manga's first page, or first pages if you will. I began thinking about it more because of something Hirohiko Araki, the author behind JoJo's Bizarre Adventure, wrote in his book Manga in Theory and Practice The Craft of Creating Manga. In the first chapter he writes about the importance of the first page. For example, when aspiring mangaka shows their work to an editor at Shonen Jump, if the first page isn't interesting enough, the whole thing can easily get turned down without getting a proper chance. This applies in other contexts of course. If you pick a comic or a book and the first page isn't interesting, or doesn't want you to turn to the next page, most readers won't give it a chance. Of course, things like the title and what's on the cover if it's a printed work, are very important too. Furthermore, the importance of making people want to turn the page applies not just to the first page of course, but every following page. In a printed comic, the end of each double page spread is going to matter more, since there is no page turning required between those two pages. Anyway, in Araki's book he recommends checking out the first pages of popular manga since they probably did something right, so I thought, why not have a look at a few here? Feel free to post examples yourself, if you want, and talk about the examples below. What do you like or find interesting? Is there something you don't like? From Naoki Urasawa's Monster: From Hiromu Arakawa's Fullmetal Alchemist: From Inio Asano's Oyasumi Punpun: Comparing these three, they take a somewhat different approach. Monster starts with many small panels that introduces the setting in a simple way using signs and characters, while also giving information about the main characters. Fullmetal Alchemist on the other hand, has a mysterious introduction of the story using a dramatic scene with quotes, which is really cliffhanger-ish in a way. And finally, Oyasumi Punpun has an entire page dedicated to an impressively detailed drawing of a city. Personally, I really like Monster's first page the most, I think it serves its purpose well. |
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| Hello I think I need to elaborate more on what the first chapter of Araki's book actually says. He emphasizes the importance of the first page by pressing how people in a store would go by the first few pages and use that as a basis to determine the worth of thier time. He then goes over what elements should be present in the first pages of a manga that are used to hook readers. -Answer the 5W1H of your work -Have individuality -Achieve multiple goals with one drawing -Act as a preview of the pages to come These elements are not set in stone, but can generally be found in varying quantities in the first pages of popular and highly ranked manga from the past and present. I would like to go over the first few pages of Oyasumi Punpun because it stands at a rather fundamental manner when using the medium of manga, which can be expressed in a technical manner when analyzing what exactly it does. From just the first 6 pages, all 4 criteria have been met, and reading the rest of the chapter solidifies them. This being the first page, we are greeted with a suburban landscape that stretches into the horizon. It sets the 'where' in a rather upfront way, which in turn contrasts with the rather intimate set of scenes that follow, putting the idea of a small kid in a big world front and center. Though one could also interpret the everlasting landscape of towns that look rather similar up to a kids imagination, as kids tend to think the world is rather simple from their rather short sighted perspective, take how the school house and mountains are the only unique places in the panel. We cut to a rather simplistic caricature of a bird upon a polka dot background. A severe contrast of the hyper realistic suburban backdrop from the first panel and the childish drawing sets up a conflict of interests in the reader, allowing them to pay closer attention to how things in this world are drawn and what significance can be derived from them. The next panel is inner dialogue talking about Punpun and his depression, with again contrasts in tone. This also sets the 'who' and 'what' of the story in motion, and the black background is shown to be an important detail as dialogue is shown in a white square box in the panel just below it. The next panel is dedicated to a front shot of Miyo, the girl who is moving to another school. She is given a rather uncanny look, with the teeth showing smile, the oddly curved eyes, and the frontward facing ears. The way she is looking in the panel correlates to the way Punpun is looking, establishing an important connection between the two. We are next given a panel which pans out to show the teacher and the student of the classroom the Punpun and Miyo reside. It's a rather simple panel which can convey the people do not see Miyo the way the reader and/or Punpun see her, as the class has regular students even though from the position of the "camera" we can still see the comically large mouth she has. It hints at the idea of a biased narrator, where the literal world and the way we see it can be skewed in certain directions to accommodate the tone of the panel. The next panel narrates how the only encounter Punpun and Miyo have had was 1 year ago when Miyo shoved gravel into the mouth of the class punching bag Yoshikawa. This establishes Punpun's design in the second pages as the interpretation we would see of him in reality. The next to panels to the right show thier interaction, which shows the rather mundane dialogue between the two. Miyo talking to Punpun to make sure that she doesn't get snitched on, but Punpun is shown flustered with the interaction. The dialogue in the black panel states how this insignificant interaction made him decide he liked Miyo, which can be correlated to page 2's black square dialogue, in that it shows the deep seeded thoughts that Punpun has, in contrast to the white bird outwardly shown to be his appearance. The next panel shows the classroom, with kids gathering together in groups to show that the teacher hasn't arrived yet. There is a kid asking his friends if they know what sex is. We can tell that it is the boy with glasses, because he is isolated to the left part of the panel and the people he is talking to are facing him on the right, which include Punpun in the center of the panel. The next panel below it show a kid with a over extending bottom lip asking in broken English what sex is, the kid with glasses tells him to be quiet and drops the topic for him. The way the 2 kids are drawn shows the importance of certain characters, and glasses kid is shown proportionally correct in spite of his friends off center look to them. It is also neat how the flow of time is expressed without panel breaks which is a pretty good technique for immersion. The next panels shows glasses kid telling Punpun what sex is, which he reacts in an over exaggerated manner by hiding in the curtains of the nearby window. We are given a sense of 'when' in terms of the character's lives, as the passing of time from the first interaction between Punpun and Miyo and the first day of class without Miyo implies that time will continue to move within the character's lives, plus that with the other school kids shows that they are in elementary school. At this point, the gap between adulthood and childhood can be determined to be a theme, with the discussion over sex as a foreign concept, and the inept understanding of love that is Miyo and Punpun. At this point, one could deduce that the paneling in this manga goes by thirds and that I have been referring to the third segments rather than each individual panel respectively, and when that is broken or enhanced it stands out, such as page 1. The next panels show the teacher coming back to the class and introducing a new kid into the class, keen eyes will notice the oddly proportioned kids in the background of the panels, which can be correlated to their narrative insignificance, which Punpun in story seems to regard Miyo. The two legs at the last panel of that segment also adds to the movement of the manga. The next panel shows a background of a far away girl with correct proportions with a clean white board. This contrasts with Miyo's panel of her saying goodbye. We are then given a close up of her introducing here self. This is followed up with a close up of Punpun, this time without a polka dot backdrop. The next panel is a black one which explains the love that Punpun now has for Aiko. For those keeping track, this introduction completely mirrors Miyo's leave. In Miyo's case, we start with a close up of Punpun, go to the close up of Miyo, then pan to the background of the class. In Aiko's case, we start with the background, go into the close up, then get Punpun's close up. Punpun in both cases have black panels which discuss the loves that he has had for these 2 girls, the chalk boards in the background mirror each other, in that one is clean and another is used, and one girl is anatomically correct while another is not. The next panels merely shows the teacher assigning work to the class, introducing him as someone with supposed narrative importance, as he is drawn anatomically correct, but given a childish demeanor. At this point, everything has been checked off. We know when and where it is taking place, who and what is happening, and how and why the characters act the way they do. In the instances where questions arise as to why certain things happen, some questions are answered in a timely manner, prompting the reader to read on to possibly learn more, serving a double meaning from just showing what exactly is happening. The odd character design and dialogue gives this story and very unique tone, and this tone remains throughout the rest of the chapter. Though I do have a little bit of a tangent to go on, so this post is technically over but I would rad it if you intend on responding with your own observations. |
RingtombDec 4, 2020 7:23 PM
| They always say that first impressions are important. When it comes to novels, some people judge the first sentence or the first paragraph. I remember reading once that people make judgements of other people within seconds of seeing them, so perhaps the same could be said about what we consume for entertainment. Like the first words seen on the first page of a comic could influence someone to keep going. One manga that we could use as an example is One Punch Man. I don’t have any pictures on hand but the first pages show a city getting destroyed by a monster and then Saitama showing up not long after. The monster questions who he is and he says he’s someone who’s a hero for fun. They fight and Saitama takes him out with one punch. Then we are shown a shot of him complaining that it was only one punch again. This whole start is a good setup for the manga as a whole and shows readers a peak of what will be explored in the story. Agreed on all your points from the both of you so far. :) |
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| Thank you for the replies, comrades! So here's another post from me, but I'm a bit lazy today (and every day) so yeah. ;) Dear Ringtomb: Nice additions regarding the principles mentioned in Araki's book. Those four principles so to speak make a lot of sense indeed. Regarding the tangent, when I was thinking about what manga I would want to choose to look at, my first thought was just to start with the ones I personally like. Now that I think of it, maybe we could discuss series where the start is very uninteresting, or doesn't follow core principles that would catch attention or introduce the series concisely. Dear K-J-Whitten: Yeah, judging a book by the first paragraph or page is certainly something I've done myself. One Punch Man does a good job of "justifying" its title already from the first first pages using that short fight and some dialogue. Certainly a good example! Having a rescue scene is probably a good way to start off any superhero story, there is some action to generate a bit of interest and it introduces the main character. Now I thought I would write a bit more about Monster! What I liked about the first page in particular is how much information it gives, using simple some simple visuals. It starts by showing a sign which reads "Operationssaal 1", a German word which seems to translate into "Operating Room". I really like this first panel, because it gives so much information about the setting using just a sign (although it's in a foreign language): we are in a German-speaking country (most likely Germany), we are indoors, and it's a hospital. In the following panels, the door opens and two characters emerge from this room, they are conversing about how something went really well, most likely an operation/ surgery (idk if it's the same thing or not in English where I'm from it's always called operation). In the next panel these two men, who are clearly employees at the hospital, speak about the skillful actions of a colleague, which surely generates some anticipation. Next, one of them shakes hands with an unseen character, while complementing this character's skill, and speaking their name, which is Kenzou Tenma. And so the main character has been introduced, but not yet shown, which I think is a pretty fine way to end the page, since now the average reader will probably want to turn the page to see what this Kenzou Tenma looks like. The second page delivers, with a big panel in the center showing a close view of Tenma's face. Here, Tenma is not only introduced visually, but we also get to know a little about his personality, as he responds very humbly to the compliments he is being given. We also get a "danke schön" from Tenma, which is frankly based, one simply can't wait to see when the next german phrase will randomly appear on these pages. I think the most valuable thing to take from the first pages of Monster is the introduction of Tenma. It certainly happens in other mediums too, but I think it's a bit of a typical thing for manga to use narration/ descriptions from side characters to sort of "hype up" or introduce a certain character, and it surely works well because it's used a lot. |
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| Hi, I'm going to write my opinion about those 3 first pages, I am not a professional and I only read FMA, but I will try to say something. First, the Monster first pages. It go directly into the current action (I think, I don't know what is really happening) and introduce the situation, characters and place. It's a good idea to go directly into what the place and the show will going to be, whi will be the main character and where did that start, and I repeat it again, but I am not a professional, this is the point of view of a generic person who didn't read this manga. Next, the only one that I read before, full metal alchemist. The first page is interesting, because we see an big tragic evenement that happens in the past, but we learn more about it later in the manga !I don't know how to name this, but it's like a contrary flashback. Next, we see a entire page with a beautiful place of Full metal alchemist, and finally the main characters are represented.The first page is an original way to start a manga, and makes you want to know what happened to the characters and make you stay reading. Finally, The pages of Oyasumi Punpun. First, I heard about this manga, some people said that it will going to break me, and I am pretty scared of this manga, I don't know why, maybe because I am emotionally fragile. The very first page show the city where the story takes place, and I have one thing to say, his drawing is beautiful !Next, I felt bad reading the two next pages.Sorry, for now I don't really talk about the presentation of the pages, but about what I just read.The drawing style is very detailed, I can't explain, but it kind of scare me and impress me to see a drawing so detailed in a manga.We see a big zoomed plan in a character face (I talk about the little bird, I don't know if this is the main character or not, you can explain if you want)and there are some white on black scriptures when he talk I think. I am really not good at explaining what I see, but some people can do it better than I can. Thanks for reading, you can correct me if I said something wrong. |
| Sorry for my bad english I speak baguette |
Zoushu said: Hey everyone! To start off, here are some questions for the sake of discussion: If you made a manga/ comic, what would your first page (and the following few pages, if you want to go that far) look like? And if you already have started working on one, what does it look like? What does your thought process look like? "()" = My thoughts and ideas at the time, perspectives, drawing, and details. I dropped making manga's when I lost that motivation. I was trying to test myself whether I can execute a proper plot with just a snap of idea's right on the spot or just good at drawing in general, so there's my story on how it started. Either way back to the question. I approached with 3 different goals in mind when it comes to first page, which is the first obstacle that I've encountered with no little in mind what so ever on how to start one. In my idea, the goal was to make the readers or audience to get engaged on the first page alone, pretty much with the two assets that I have that I hope I can execute. I started off with a setting where you see an alleyway, then two enemies trying the run away whilst someone chasing them which is the MC (I had this approach like Bakemonogatari and Tokyo Ghoul when it comes to angles or perspective on what/how we look at on the characters. So what I did is on the perspective of MC, I tried making it menacing right off the bat because it posses a certain ability in where the readers can tackle soon somewhere in the middle of the manga, which I had in mind at the time thinking it would be a good start to make the readers engaged. If you're curious on what it looks like, its somewhat similar to this: https://i.neoseeker.com/u/e/39/shingeki-4-34-eren-jaeger-eyes.jpg but in a different expression, giving it a cold look with several letters and numbers written on it's eyeballs, also if I remember I did this approach with an fish eye perspective which gives it more impact or intense adrenaline going on with the chasing scene) So yeah, several steps a head, I made sure the audience doesn't know what the fuck is going on with the scene (and making it sure at the same time that they would still read it with a thought of curiousness on what the MC did). The alleyway that I approached with has different path ways which is a great escape (I think) to make the chaser confused which path or direction they went to. (Now, I think we've passed two to three pages at this point. Now with this I activated the MC's skill in which again has that detailed drawing, numbers flowing around and letters flying off his eyeballs. With his ability I'm making it seem like he has Super Powers that can see the future, but rather than having powers, he has a very high intuition on what's going to be the outcome, results, possibilities, probability, and etc. He can do this within seconds on hand, with quick decisioning he has no flaws to it, except for one (Sorry I forgot about that one flaw of the character but I made it sure it's something major)). MC starting to chase them little by little until the enemies lost sight of him thinking that they've escaped, but they're right in front of him. EDIT: bOnK! I forgot the rest of the first chapter, but I'll prob find it somewhere in my file cabinet if you're interested on what's going on next. So yeah, I'm pretty much new at the time and I think the introduction is pretty dogshit, starting off with a random chase scene showing the MC's power is pretty... idk I'd say somewhat of a low blow (meaning that reading wouldn't engage at something like that). Anyway that's pretty much it, I'm running out of time so if there's any flaws to the story or questions, feel free to ask and criticize. I'm always open to opinions that might open a new different path of ideas. Also all of your points are well written out, good shit. Have a great day! |
EmtShellDec 5, 2020 3:27 PM
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EmtShell said: Zoushu said: Hey everyone! To start off, here are some questions for the sake of discussion: If you made a manga/ comic, what would your first page (and the following few pages, if you want to go that far) look like? And if you already have started working on one, what does it look like? What does your thought process look like? "()" = My thoughts and ideas at the time, perspectives, drawing, and details. I dropped making manga's when I lost that motivation. I was trying to test myself whether I can execute a proper plot with just a snap of idea's right on the spot or just good at drawing in general, so there's my story on how it started. Either way back to the question. I approached with 3 different goals in mind when it comes to first page, which is the first obstacle that I've encountered with no little in mind what so ever on how to start one. In my idea, the goal was to make the readers or audience to get engaged on the first page alone, pretty much with the two assets that I have that I hope I can execute. I started off with a setting where you see an alleyway, then two enemies trying the run away whilst someone chasing them which is the MC (I had this approach like Bakemonogatari and Tokyo Ghoul when it comes to angles or perspective on what/how we look at on the characters. So what I did is on the perspective of MC, I tried making it menacing right off the bat because it posses a certain ability in where the readers can tackle soon somewhere in the middle of the manga, which I had in mind at the time thinking it would be a good start to make the readers engaged. If you're curious on what it looks like, its somewhat similar to this: https://i.neoseeker.com/u/e/39/shingeki-4-34-eren-jaeger-eyes.jpg but in a different expression, giving it a cold look with several letters and numbers written on it's eyeballs, also if I remember I did this approach with an fish eye perspective which gives it more impact or intense adrenaline going on with the chasing scene) So yeah, several steps a head, I made sure the audience doesn't know what the fuck is going on with the scene (and making it sure at the same time that they would still read it with a thought of curiousness on what the MC did). The alleyway that I approached with has different path ways which is a great escape (I think) to make the chaser confused which path or direction they went to. (Now, I think we've passed two to three pages at this point. Now with this I activated the MC's skill in which again has that detailed drawing, numbers flowing around and letters flying off his eyeballs. With his ability I'm making it seem like he has Super Powers that can see the future, but rather than having powers, he has a very high intuition on what's going to be the outcome, results, possibilities, probability, and etc. He can do this within seconds on hand, with quick decisioning he has no flaws to it, except for one (Sorry I forgot about that one flaw of the character but I made it sure it's something major)). MC starting to chase them little by little until the enemies lost sight of him thinking that they've escaped, but they're right in front of him. EDIT: bOnK! I forgot the rest of the first chapter, but I'll prob find it somewhere in my file cabinet if you're interested on what's going on next. So yeah, I'm pretty much new at the time and I think the introduction is pretty dogshit, starting off with a random chase scene showing the MC's power is pretty... idk I'd say somewhat of a low blow (meaning that reading wouldn't engage at something like that). Anyway that's pretty much it, I'm running out of time so if there's any flaws to the story or questions, feel free to ask and criticize. I'm always open to opinions that might open a new different path of ideas. Also all of your points are well written out, good shit. Have a great day! Thanks for your reponse! Well I'm thinking that a lot of stories do start with chase scenes, so it probably isn't a bad concept. There are surely more successful approaches other than being as informative as possible. Personally I probably don't like chase scenes at the beginning, myself. The concept of having letters and such in the eyes to represent the main character's special ability was a nice idea I think, it should generate some interest. I wonder what the alleyway looks like though. If you think the scene might be boring, you could make the alleway interesting/ informative in some way I guess, to compensate. Hope you have a great day too! |
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