Basilisk
What aspect of Basilisk was the most disappointing?
| To be entirely honest, I was just expecting this show to be popcorn entertainment, given the premise (which didn't really strike a chord with me), but I ended up a lot more disappointed by it than I initially expected. I'm not cribbing or ranting, per se, but I just wanted to engage in a conversation over what different people did or didn't like about this show and why. It seems like a fun exercise, considering that it's been over 10 years, and a lot of people might end up commenting on the show in retrospect. For me, I was immediately put off in episode one by the fact that the main heroine was a "damsel in distress"-archetype. At the very least, Iga-no-Ogen displayed that she was proficient in combat, to some extent, but her counterpart was basically useless in a fight other than one cheap gimmick. I'm pointing this out because a lot of the tension and drama that could have been exploited by pitting the main characters against each other is lost by the simple fact that the female protagonist has neither physical capabilities nor force of will, begging the question of what role she even plays in the plot. While I wasn't expecting realistic ninja fights (I'm well aware that real ninja aren't as they are portrayed in Hollywood, but I was hoping for slightly realistic variants of "stealthy ninja" combat), the abilities were a bit over the top. Mind you, I'm more than willing to overlook them, and it's not like I was expecting these abilities to be explained by a power system, either, but I feel that they genuinely didn't work well with the plot of the series, and didn't win the fights any brownie points whatsoever. The fights were unpredictable at times, granted, but they tended to be too abrupt, and hinged almost entirely on gimmicks and one-off instances of "techniques", as opposed to actual strategy or choreography. The result was copious deaths on both sides, many of which betrayed the stage they set by killing the dramatic buildup. I knew this was going to be a battle royale all along, but it's still annoying to think about how many deaths were being dealt in this series, back-to-back, no less. Some were straight up pointless, but again, no one was expecting all, or even most, of them to make it to the end. But the pacing and distribution of these deaths is what irks me. It seems that the decision made was that if there wasn't at least a death per episode or so, there wouldn't be enough of an excitement factor (or shock factor, whatever), which lead to a weaker narrative around these instances of death. A lot of the characters were surprisingly well written, straight up to their deaths (I wasn't saying that all of the death scenes were bad), but some felt like lost potential, or as if they really didn't need to exist in the story in the first place. Well, that's basically just my hot take on the series, which I apparently finished more than a decade too late. Please don't take my opinion to be polarising, but feel free to agree, disagree or elaborate on it; I look forward to the discourse! |
| Well the poll is flawed because there is no disagree option. I love this show, none of it was disappointing to me, and it's been a yearly rewatch since I saw it a few years ago. Actually it's in my top 3. It has fast pacing, great action and awesome ensemble of characters with heir own little stories/conflicts/relationships, which is the highlight of a battle royale. The fights were unpredictable at times, granted, but they tended to be too abrupt, and hinged almost entirely on gimmicks and one-off instances of "techniques", as opposed to actual strategy or choreography The fights are brutal and pragmatic because they are assassins. They are won by surprise and trickery rather than strategy and... choreography (when I say choreography that makes me think of the drawn out dance spectacles of the Star Wars prequels). Personally I like short, decisive fights rather than drawn out back and forths. And I can't stand dialogue heavy fights (cough, Jojo). This is personal preference; I prefer this kind of action; the kind seen in the "Battle Royale" movie. Short, brutal, pragmatic. With regards to the Oroboro; the point of her character is that she doesn't want to fight. Does every main female character need to be an action hero? Strength of a character isn't only measured by combat effectiveness. Is pacifism "weak" ? <--- that's a question the show asks. Another thing I love is the understated tragic tone tone to it. Nearly every character is developed well enough for you to feel sad about their death. Even Jingoro (the slime/slug guy) is a sad death even though he's a pathetic character, because of Akigenu's reaction to it. My favorite is the subtle expression Saemon (the shapeshifter guy) has when he helps stabs Akigenu in the back ... that subtle realization of guilt that could easily have been over the top and melodramatic in a lesser show. And there's the bit where he comforts Hotarubi before killing her. So yeah... I love this show and don't agree with any of your points. personal preference, I love the action to it, think there's a lot of subtlty and nuance in a medium that widely leans to towards being widely over the top. The plot is riveting and fast paced. Oh and the art and music is good (I love that moody/dark, quiet atmosphere the later episodes). I can talk (ramble) about this show forever. So we couldn't disagree more. It's a 10 for me. Just some other thoughts: it's not like I was expecting these abilities to be explained by a power system It seems that the decision made was that if there wasn't at least a death per episode or so Worth noting is that this show is almost a scene-by-scene, death-by-death adapation of the 1950s original book; the main difference being the subtly stronger characterization, and in the book the ninja powers were delved into a bit more (it's explained by genetic mutations/breeding... yeah apparently you can breed Mr Fantastic limbs and tentacle hair) but those explanations were unnecessary so I don't mind them being cut. I find the show an improvement over the book for those reasons. Now if you want to see a true embarrassment of a ninja battle royale, check out the 2018 sequel... |
Haunt-botMay 2, 2020 1:05 PM
| Shoot first, think never. |
| Using 4chan quotes because quoting individual bits on MAl is very tedious... Saemon22 said: Kouga deaths were all stupid. How could Danjo lower his guard to the point a dead old woman could stab him? He thought she was dead, and she struck when he was distracted by her eagle. >How did Shogen miss Hotarubi with his web and was scared of butterflies? Shogen doesn't know what the butterflies are or what they might do (distracting him and undoing the web). >How Josuke was so dumb he get killed by a dying Jigoro when he was skilled enough to defeat Rousai and Akeginu? Surprise attack. It doesn't matter how good of a combatant you are if you are stabbed in the back. >Okoi death was the most annoying of them all. So you tell me she didn't think about draining Nenki when he stripped and certainly molested her as implied, just to realize he has hairy body on the last moment? Also she's is so unlucky it makes the whole thing frustrating. It isn't implied that Nenki molested her. They brought her to the store room as a group. She could only risk exposing her ability if there was one person there at a time. >Gyobu In the anime is unprofessional for thinking about a damn child while he told saemon earlier not to care for Okoi but Gennosuke instead and he gets killed for that mistake. Why did he go on his own fighting 5 people against his leader's order anyway? That was dumb He's unprofessional, sure. They are only human and Tenzen exploited his truma. As for why he attacked 5 on his own; he has a powerful technique and perhaps got a bit cocky; he definitely underestimated Akeginu because she was a human. >Hyoma experienced blind guy loses to a newly blind guy. Do I have to say more? A newly blind guy who has in terms of raw deadilness the most power technique. >Saemon is as unlucky as his sister Not unlucky, he just didn't know about Tenzen's technique which Tenzen used brilliantly to his advantage. >Kagero is an idiot. Instead of letting Saemon slaughter Oboro in the enemy fortress, she asks to kill personally because she's jealous of her for love affairs. Instead of saying how dumb she is, Saemon who is certainly attracted by the girl makes up that dumb plan saying he raped and tamed her as Tenzen (What a pervert), so the enemy will accept the lie and Kagero can have the final kill. Problem, tenzen kills saemon and Kagero is not aware of it so he indeed rapes her then tortures her until she dies. Morons This is a good question. The answer is that at this point in time, Saemon doesn't know Oboro is blind; the only time he sees her is in the field at night and she is wearing a hat that covers her eyes. The last time he met Oboro she nullified his technique, and he can't risk that happening in a building full of samurai and another Iga (Akeginu). If you want proof he didn't know she was blinded, look at the final episode where Gyonosuke tells Oboro to pick up a sword and is astounded when she tells him she's blind. >Gennosuke is as bad, if not worse than Oboro as a leader. Why would you go in enemy village without protection when you're not married yet? Because of him, half his team died before the battle really starts. Why not get suspicious when Josuke did not appear again? How could you be laughing with Oboro while Okoi who came to rescue you is being subjected to all sort of treatments in the very same castle you're drinking and dancing in? Why not kill all Iga when you had the chance? Why tell them where you were going? And finally, why you moron did you let Iga win? They will slaughter your people just because you had your cringe love story. All your friends died for nothing! Because the peace treaty is sacred, and he had no way of knowing it was going to be nullified. Going there was dangerous and naive, but he just wanted peace that badly. |
| Shoot first, think never. |
| Massive amounts of plot induced stupidity and villains too stupid to win, tho the series as a whole didn't fail despite these shortcomings. I enjoyed it a lot. Saemon22 said: I completely agree with you on Saemon being scared of Oboro though. Didn't think about it that way. You didn't think about a lot of things. None of the arguments you provided are valid if you paid attention. Now here are some actual examples of plot induced stupidity: -Why did Tenzen try to rape the only person that can actually kill him not once but twice, why did he think she will switch sides after he raped her, surely living 180 years long should have taught him that humans believe in love, loyalty and stuff? -Considering that the asshole is immortal he should have used his immortality in more efficient fashion, just go in and slaughter, what are you afraid of smh. in fact almost all the characters underused the full capability of their special powers -Why did Tenzen and other igas expect Oboro to help them kill Gennoske, Gyobu and Saemon right after they revealed to her that they lied to her, manipulated her and waged war without her knowledge and consent? -Why did they send hotarubi and the other idiot alone to do exactly what, seal gennoskes eyes and get aboslutley butchered because there is no way that even without gennoske they would have won 3vs2(actually 4vs2 as igas had no way to know gyobu has seperated from the main group). -And after they lose 2 of their ninjas, their main 10 goes from 7 to 5 remaining. You would think it's time to retreat and maybe set up some traps back at home or maybe actually hope peace will be negotiated again as your chances of actually winning are considerably slimmer now. Yet despite that they seem desperate to catch up with gennoske's group asap to the point they take a boat through the sea. Even tho one of their members is very weak to salt water, to say it gently. Even tho the enemy has one shapeshifter and one guy who can merge with solid matter, and they know it cause they already clashed with these guys. Was it hard to figure out that one of them will try to sneak up on board with them and sink them all? -Everyone forgets that Saemon is a shapeshifter for some reason. The Kouga aren't immune to plot induced stupidity either, tho to much lesser extend. For example: -Saemon should have figured out that tenzen is immortal based on what yashamaru told him. -Kagero is overly emotional sperg, and almost got gennosuke killed twice, tho her friends are something too if they noticed she is exerting toxic pheromones all the time and didnt even tell her to chill or warn gennosuke beforehand |
KuroNekoAlchemyApr 27, 2021 11:47 AM
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