i have few questions about R2 and recap movies (spoilers)

Feb 13, 2019 2:04 PM

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Jan 2009

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im sure they want to make ending of R2 to still be vague as possible with a lot of hints that Lelouch is still alive on that first timeline

so they decided to make this second timeline where he is confirmed dead and become resurrected instead

Feb 13, 2019 3:18 PM

#3

RazorBMW

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Apr 2016

29

deg said:
im sure they want to make ending of R2 to still be vague as possible with a lot of hints that Lelouch is still alive on that first timeline

Lelouch is killed in R2 and it's done, simple. It's end of Leouch story in R2.
Zero Requiem is the same, both in TV and recaps.

CaptainFlint said:

my first question is if lelouch died in R2 so what the point of removing the cart scene in the recap movie the cart scene does not effect or serve the plot of the movies ?

Well, they put win-wink to the cart theory, but it's just little visual reference, nothing more.

C.C is going ALONE to France coz of Shirley and Jeremiah - [spoiler]they've got his llifeless body.

Then smth is goin wrong with revival by CC.

Feb 13, 2019 3:56 PM

#4

deg

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Jan 2009

102805

RazorBMW said:

deg said:
im sure they want to make ending of R2 to still be vague as possible with a lot of hints that Lelouch is still alive on that first timeline

Lelouch is killed in R2 and it's done, simple. It's end of Leouch story in R2.
Zero Requiem is the same, both in TV and recaps.

you ignored this second sentence of mine "so they decided to make this second timeline where he is confirmed dead and become resurrected instead"

whats the point of them making this alternative timeline then and not continue R2

Feb 13, 2019 4:12 PM

#5

RazorBMW

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Apr 2016

29

deg said:

RazorBMW said:

Lelouch is killed in R2 and it's done, simple. It's end of Leouch story in R2.
Zero Requiem is the same, both in TV and recaps.

you ignored this second sentence of mine "so they decided to make this second timeline where he is confirmed dead and become resurrected instead"

whats the point of them making this alternative timeline then and not continue R2

They didn't want to ruin the ending and I think they left it behind. They said that story in R2 is over, so they created "what if" scenario, and it's fine. Sunrise made an occasion to make some money so Okouchi and Taniguchi made stuff with Shirley.
Since Fukkatsu would be rather impossible without Shirley...
And CC is determined to get him back, instead of letting it go, like in TV series...

Feb 13, 2019 5:25 PM

#6

deg

Online

Jan 2009

102805

RazorBMW said:

deg said:

you ignored this second sentence of mine "so they decided to make this second timeline where he is confirmed dead and become resurrected instead"

whats the point of them making this alternative timeline then and not continue R2

They didn't want to ruin the ending and I think they left it behind. They said that story in R2 is over, so they created "what if" scenario, and it's fine. Sunrise made an occasion to make some money so Okouchi and Taniguchi made stuff with Shirley.
Since Fukkatsu would be rather impossible without Shirley...
And CC is determined to get him back, instead of letting it go, like in TV series...

that does not make sense though, if R2 confirms the death of Lelouch then why make another timeline where he is also confirmed dead, and also from the comments on various places there is no big differences between the TV series and the new retold movies of Code Geass so they can continue the story with R2 easily but they did not do that

degFeb 13, 2019 5:30 PM

Feb 14, 2019 3:10 AM

#7

xscetia23

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Oct 2018

77

RazorBMW said:

deg said:

you ignored this second sentence of mine "so they decided to make this second timeline where he is confirmed dead and become resurrected instead"

whats the point of them making this alternative timeline then and not continue R2

They didn't want to ruin the ending and I think they left it behind. They said that story in R2 is over, so they created "what if" scenario, and it's fine. Sunrise made an occasion to make some money so Okouchi and Taniguchi made stuff with Shirley.
Since Fukkatsu would be rather impossible without Shirley...
And CC is determined to get him back, instead of letting it go, like in TV series...

They change the carriage scene with CC in the recap movie into CC just riding a horse. Lelouch is clearly alive in R2.If that is not enough evidence and you peeps keep spouting that the director said so that Lelouch is dead is just plain ass bullcrap lie

Feb 14, 2019 6:35 AM

#8

Char-NL

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Feb 2017

3

i can just let my friend whats r1 and r2 and then ressurection just tell him that shirly is alive bc recap movie and done

Feb 14, 2019 11:25 AM

#9

CaptainFlint

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Sep 2014

18

ShadowHunter007 said:

CaptainFlint said:
i watched CG R1 and R2 fews years ago then i watched the recap movies this year and i know that the recap movies in alternative timeline or something like that

in the third recap movie they removed the cart scene ( the cart scene was the ending of R2 )

my first question is if lelouch died in R2 so what the point of removing the cart scene in the recap movie the cart scene does not effect or serve the plot of the movies ? cuz they already kept shirley alive to change the timeline

my 2nd question if lelouch was alive in the end of R2 so what the point of killing him in recap movies and try to resurrect him in fukkatsu no lelouch

1. This movie ending is also ambiguous. People watched the movie also speculated that all of the event from this movie might very well be happened between Zero Requiem and the hay cart scene in this timeline atleast.

2. This is alternate resoulation and removing mysterious scene such as those was necessary for that. Because in this way those scenes stand on their own and this doesn’t retcon or close them up.

i think if we correct the timeline everything will make sense

Code Gears R1 >> R2 >> Fukkatsu no Lelouch >> the cart scene the only problem is shierly is alive in the movies

i think removing the cart scene without correcting the timeline makes lelouch alive in R2

CaptainFlintFeb 14, 2019 11:30 AM

Feb 14, 2019 1:45 PM

#10

RazorBMW

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29

CaptainFlint said:

ShadowHunter007 said:

1. This movie ending is also ambiguous. People watched the movie also speculated that all of the event from this movie might very well be happened between Zero Requiem and the hay cart scene in this timeline atleast.

2. This is alternate resoulation and removing mysterious scene such as those was necessary for that. Because in this way those scenes stand on their own and this doesn’t retcon or close them up.

i think if we correct the timeline everything will make sense

Code Gears R1 >> R2 >> Fukkatsu no Lelouch >> the cart scene the only problem is shierly is alive in the movies

i think removing the cart scene without correcting the timeline makes lelouch alive in R2

xscetia23 said:

RazorBMW said:

They didn't want to ruin the ending and I think they left it behind. They said that story in R2 is over, so they created "what if" scenario, and it's fine. Sunrise made an occasion to make some money so Okouchi and Taniguchi made stuff with Shirley.
Since Fukkatsu would be rather impossible without Shirley...
And CC is determined to get him back, instead of letting it go, like in TV series...

They change the carriage scene with CC in the recap movie into CC just riding a horse. Lelouch is clearly alive in R2.If that is not enough evidence and you peeps keep spouting that the director said so that Lelouch is dead is just plain ass bullcrap lie

Code doesn't work in R2.
CC received his body in movies timeline. Boiz just remixed code theory, and iin TV timeline it's debunk itself, so he's dead, simple.

RazorBMWFeb 14, 2019 1:50 PM

Feb 14, 2019 3:36 PM

#11

xscetia23

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Oct 2018

77

RazorBMW said:

CaptainFlint said:

i think if we correct the timeline everything will make sense

Code Gears R1 >> R2 >> Fukkatsu no Lelouch >> the cart scene the only problem is shierly is alive in the movies

i think removing the cart scene without correcting the timeline makes lelouch alive in R2

xscetia23 said:

They change the carriage scene with CC in the recap movie into CC just riding a horse. Lelouch is clearly alive in R2.If that is not enough evidence and you peeps keep spouting that the director said so that Lelouch is dead is just plain ass bullcrap lie

Code doesn't work in R2.
CC received his body in movies timeline. Boiz just remixed code theory, and iin TV timeline it's debunk itself, so he's dead, simple.

Keep up with debunking and half assed theories in reddit when it is clearly shown in the Japanese Cut in R2 that Lelouch is alive. The director is the one who decided him to be dead, not the story writer

Feb 14, 2019 6:57 PM

#12

alterzero

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Aug 2016

86

The Japanese Cut was a fan edit and not official. This is a fact though https://anime.stackexchange.com/questions/47978/why-do-some-fans-believe-lelouch-vi-britannia-had-the-code-when-the-show-staff-t

the info who came from the staff who knows it better than us cuz that's how the story was intended. the end.

Feb 18, 2019 8:45 PM

#13

Little-Stranger

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Feb 2019

5

I haven't watch fukkatsu no lelouch. So somebody please tell me that this is a cannon not an alternate ending or something 😭😭

Feb 19, 2019 8:53 AM

#14

removed-user

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Jul 2018

562346

Little-Stranger said:
I haven't watch fukkatsu no lelouch. So somebody please tell me that this is a cannon not an alternate ending or something 😭😭

It's not canon. Fukkatsu no Lelouch and the three recap movies are an alternate timeline.

Feb 19, 2019 2:42 PM

#15

LelouchviBritMER

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Aug 2018

141

CaptainFlint said:

my first question is if lelouch died in R2 so what the point of removing the cart scene in the recap movie the cart scene does not effect or serve the plot of the movies ?

Lelouch did indeed truly die in R2
The anime itself made it impossible for Lelouch to have a code and the show staff have repeated for 10 years the same thing: Lelouch is truly dead

The reason why the cart scene was removed from the movies is because this scene shows C.C. coming to terms with Lelouch's death. that's why she seemed a bit oddly happy. She herself explained in that scene that having met Lelouch she now understands that her fate doesn't mean solitude. She has learned to accept life and the future.
This was later reinforced on C.C.'s page on the Code Geass website of back in the days, which said: "Knowing that Lelouch does not hate her for giving him the Geass, she is now able to show her true feelings. With the realization of "Zero Requiem", her time with Lelouch, who was able to forgive and accept her, came to an end, but the memories created with him has, without doubt, saved her from eternal loneliness."

Because some people misinterpreted this scene and erroneously thought Lelouch was the cart driver, the show staff dropped and replaced that epilogue in 2009 on the ZR DVD, and in the new epilogue she narrates directly to the audience and says that Lelouch is dead and that she mourns his death, but knowing that he died with a smile because he achieved his goal of creating a better world comforts her.
Watch the 2009 epilogue here

So, in summary, the cart driver scene was meant to show us that Lelouch had fully accepted Lelouch's death and was able to move on into the future.
The pink paper crane reinforced that as it was made when Nunnally wished for a better world, which was achieved with the Zero Requiem, thus the crane represented the ZR which was what she drew comfort from.

Since movie C.C. could not accept Lelouch's death (she admits that resurrecting Lelouch was for her own personal selfish desires) the cart scene could indeed not be included anymore.

CaptainFlint said:

my 2nd question if lelouch was alive in the end of R2 so what the point of killing him in recap movies and try to resurrect him in fukkatsu no lelouch

He's dead, no code, no immortality.
If you want the full info on that, you can read the Code Geass Community Information Database which has all the official statements, including links, sources and pictures, and which shows how the anime itself contradicts the "clues" of code theory.

new movie spoiler:

Feb 19, 2019 2:48 PM

#16

LelouchviBritMER

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Aug 2018

141

xscetia23 said:

Keep up with debunking and half assed theories in reddit when it is clearly shown in the Japanese Cut in R2 that Lelouch is alive. The director is the one who decided him to be dead, not the story writer

And that is just a pure lie.
We know from interviews that the director also agreed that lelouch had to die to pay for his sins.

Some examples:

Continue Vol42: Was there a dispute among the staff members regarding the ending?
Okouchi: No. It was decided fairly naturally. During the "Code Geass" script meetings, there are many cases in which there were a number of disputes, but there were barely any when it came to the scripts for (the previous series's) episode 25 and the final episode.

Geass memories (a 10 years Code geass anniversary series of tweets where show staff talk about how Code Geass was made):
"Before I started writing the story of a person called Lelouch, I confirmed with Taniguchi-director something. That thing was that THE END OF LELOUCH WILL BE DEATH."

Feb 19, 2019 2:51 PM

#17

LelouchviBritMER

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Aug 2018

141

deg said:
im sure they want to make ending of R2 to still be vague as possible with a lot of hints that Lelouch is still alive on that first timeline

no that was a myth created by conspiracy theorists to give credibility to their theory.
What was said was that people were free to interpret lelouch's death as a sad or happy thing, not that people were free to interpret Lelouch's death itself.
The death of Lelouch has always been set in stone.

Feb 19, 2019 3:00 PM

#18

xscetia23

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Oct 2018

77

LelouchviBritMER said:

xscetia23 said:

Keep up with debunking and half assed theories in reddit when it is clearly shown in the Japanese Cut in R2 that Lelouch is alive. The director is the one who decided him to be dead, not the story writer

And that is just a pure lie.
We know from interviews that the director also agreed that lelouch had to die to pay for his sins.

Some examples:

Continue Vol42: Was there a dispute among the staff members regarding the ending?
Okouchi: No. It was decided fairly naturally. During the "Code Geass" script meetings, there are many cases in which there were a number of disputes, but there were barely any when it came to the scripts for (the previous series's) episode 25 and the final episode.

Geass memories (a 10 years Code geass anniversary series of tweets where show staff talk about how Code Geass was made):
"Before I started writing the story of a person called Lelouch, I confirmed with Taniguchi-director something. That thing was that THE END OF LELOUCH WILL BE DEATH."

then where is the explanation about the change in the CC Cart Scene? Ain't Lelouch the one driving the cart? How about that scene from that Japanese cut? Confirmed death just for the viewers to speculate?? This is either poor directing or we make a movie for cash grab level of utter crap. The movie is good, just good but not the same levels compared to R1 and R2 series. They need to make R3 come really, still tons of questions (or plot holes) unanswered.

Feb 19, 2019 3:16 PM

#19

LelouchviBritMER

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Aug 2018

141

xscetia23 said:

then where is the explanation about the change in the CC Cart Scene? Ain't Lelouch the one driving the cart? How about that scene from that Japanese cut?

There is no such thing as a scene revealing Lelouch to be the cart driver.
That video is a well known fake. it's a fan made edit.
There's a million things which make it eay to spot
during the reveal there's no music, the quality suddenly drops, the broadcast logo disappears, etc
People who saw the original airing all say that scene didn't exist
You can't just cut things from an episode, they're fixed in length
Why do only conspiracy theorists have access to that video and nobody else?
It's not even part on any dvd or so, so how did they even get it?
Easy answer, it's fake fake fake.
it was made to fool people, to deceive them into believing their conspiracy theory.

Even more than that, because some people misunderstood that scene which was meant to show that C.C. had accepted Lelouch's death and erroneously thought Lelouch was the cart driver, they dropped and replaced the epilogue in 2009.
the new epilogue has C.C. directly addressing the audience and explaining that Lelouch is dead and she mourns his death, but knowing that he died with a smile because he achieved his goal of creating a better world comforts her.
Watch the new epilogue here

Feb 19, 2019 3:26 PM

#20

xscetia23

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Oct 2018

77

LelouchviBritMER said:

xscetia23 said:

then where is the explanation about the change in the CC Cart Scene? Ain't Lelouch the one driving the cart? How about that scene from that Japanese cut?

There is no such thing as a scene revealing Lelouch to be the cart driver.
That video is a well known fake. it's a fan made edit.
There's a million things which make it eay to spot
during the reveal there's no music, the quality suddenly drops, the broadcast logo disappears, etc
People who saw the original airing all say that scene didn't exist
You can't just cut things from an episode, they're fixed in length
Why do only conspiracy theorists have access to that video and nobody else?
It's not even part on any dvd or so, so how did they even get it?
Easy answer, it's fake fake fake.
it was made to fool people, to deceive them into believing their conspiracy theory.

Even more than that, because some people misunderstood that scene which was meant to show that C.C. had accepted Lelouch's death and erroneously thought Lelouch was the cart driver, they dropped and replaced the epilogue in 2009.
the new epilogue has C.C. directly addressing the audience and explaining that Lelouch is dead and she mourns his death, but knowing that he died with a smile because he achieved his goal of creating a better world comforts her.
Watch the new epilogue here

I already watched that. The scene is a lot different compared to the one in the R2 final episode. Misunderstanding or intended to make people he is alive or dead, it is still a poor way to end R2 with the original epilogue. Why not show that Lelouch really died like some kind of explanation on why he can't possibly outlive that stab or cheat death? The answer is they clearly want him alive and at the same time death. Even without counting down those "thesis like theories" floating around the internet, this is just a loophole. We need R3 to solve this, not the movie, not the confirmation from creators, not this theories, not this fan edit or not ending, we need a clear solid ending for R2 and that is not the Movie sadly

Feb 19, 2019 4:05 PM

#21

LelouchviBritMER

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Aug 2018

141

xscetia23 said:
Why not show that Lelouch really died like some kind of explanation on why he can't possibly outlive that stab or cheat death?

Why?
Showing him die on-screen, bleeding out is more than explicit and clear enough.
And I'm quite sure they never anticipated that some people would be so in denial that they'd come up with impossible conspiracy theories.
And yes, impossible. The anime itself makes it impossible for Lelouch to have a code. The anime shows times time and again that everyone who gets the code loses the geass and Lelouch never lost his geass.
And before you say Lelouch was an exception because of reasons, no he wasn't. The anime NEVER set up for any kind of exceptions to its established rule, nor that there were extra conditions for the rule.
The anime provides no basis whatsoever to just assume that Code from one person and geass from another works any differently than normal. you might as well assume that the character's breakfast plays a role. if the anime doesn't show any hint that an assumption is real, then the assumption is NOT supported by the anime and thus false, just a fanfic.

So, with the anime telling us that it's simply not possible for Lelouch to be immortal, a sword through the chest is certain death. There really didn't need to be a narration saying "btw guys he's dead, truly dead, deader than dead". In the end, they did do this narration in the 2009 epilogue and it's sad that some people are so susceptible to the fallacies of conspiracy thinking that the code geass staff saw themselves forced to do this.

xscetia23 said:

The answer is they clearly want him alive and at the same time death.

No they didn't.
They said a million times that he's dead, and not a single time that he's alive or not even a single time vaguely suggesting that he's alive.
They've been so incredibly explicit and clear, and yet still people say "mmmmaybeeee"

Have you read the interviews?
They are ADAMANT on him being dead and that his death as fundamental for their code of ethics.

xscetia23 said:

We need R3 to solve this, not the movie,

There will never be a R3.
That's whole reason they made an AU now.
R2 is finished, done forever.

xscetia23 said:

not the confirmation from creators, not this theories, not this fan edit or not ending, we need a clear solid ending for R2 and that is not the Movie sadly

We HAVE a clear ending for R2 because the anime made it clear it was impossible for Lelouch to have a code.
And the confirmation of the show staff has the same weight.
The people who made the story, the people who make the canon, explained the ending. That's all the info we need.

Feb 19, 2019 4:13 PM

#22

xscetia23

Offline

Oct 2018

77

LelouchviBritMER said:

xscetia23 said:
Why not show that Lelouch really died like some kind of explanation on why he can't possibly outlive that stab or cheat death?

Why?
Showing him die on-screen, bleeding out is more than explicit and clear enough.
And I'm quite dure they never anticipated that some people would be so in denial that they'd come up with impossible conspiracy theories.
And yes, impossible. The anime itself makes it impossible for Lelouch to have a code. The anime shows times time and again that everyone who gets the code loses the geass and Lelouch never lost his geass.
And before you say Lelouch was an exception because of reasons, no he wasn't. The anime NEVER set up for any kind of exceptions to its established rule, nor that there were extra conditions for the rule.
The anime provides no basis whatsoever to just assume that Code from one person and geass from another works any differently than normal. you might as well assume that the character's breakfast plays a role. if the anime doesn't show any hint that an assumption is real, then the assumption is NOT supported by the anime and thus false, just a fanfic.

So, with the anime telling us that it's simply not possible for Lelouch to be immortal, a sword through the chest is certain death. There really didn't need to be a narration saying "btw guys he's dead, truly dead, deader than dead". In the end, they did do this narration in the 2009 epilogue and it's sad that some people are so susceptible to the fallacies of conspiracy thinking that the code geass staff saw themselves forced to do this.

xscetia23 said:

The answer is they clearly want him alive and at the same time death.

No they didn't.
they said a million times that he's dead, and not a single time that he's alive or not even a single time vaguely suggesting that he's alive.
They've been so incredibly explicit and clear, and yet still people say "mmmmaybeeee"

Have you read the interviews?
They are ADAMANT on him being dead and that his death as fundamental for their code of ethics.

xscetia23 said:

We need R3 to solve this, not the movie,

There will never be a R3.
That's whole reason they made an AU now.
R2 is finished, done forever.

xscetia23 said:

not the confirmation from creators, not this theories, not this fan edit or not ending, we need a clear solid ending for R2 and that is not the Movie sadly

We HAVE a clear ending for R2 because the anime made it clear it was impossible for Lelouch to have a code.
And the confirmation of the show staff has the same weight.
The people who made the story, the people who make the canon, explained the ending. That's all the info we need.

You are really fixated with his death. If it is clear then why there are many people that is still not accepting his death? Why bother with all this theories and stuff? This sht ain't "clear" the moment they end R2 and forever will be debated whether he is alive or dead. Compare to other classic animes with memorable deaths, this one ain't even a clear one and that change in CC cart scene just confirms they didnt expect stuff in their end part. And the movie is NOT the answer. The movie is a sequel to the recap movies, not R2. We need R3 that's all

Feb 19, 2019 5:47 PM

#23

LelouchviBritMER

Offline

Aug 2018

141

xscetia23 said:
If it is clear then why there are many people that is still not accepting his death?

Various reasons.
People are still in denial about the death of their beloved fictional character (this happens a lot, there's still theories which claim that a certain beloved character from Game of Thrones did not die in season 1, for example.
People can be out of touch with the community which has shown beyond doubt that Lelouch was dead and not immortal
People who have been pushing the conspiracy narrative for a decade can be unwilling to accept the official information because their ego doesn't allow it
etc

it's not because some people still are uninformed about Lelouch's death that this makes it "uncertain". There are still a lot of people who doubt that the earth is a globe. Do they have a point? No.
So the existence of people denying facts does not cast doubts on those fact.

xscetia23 said:
This sht ain't "clear" the moment they end R2 and forever will be debated whether he is alive or dead.

Sure, it will be debated.
Because there will always be people who live in their bubble.
People who deny the earth is a globe.
People who deny we've been to the moon
People who deny Lelouch is truly dead at the end of R2.
it's all conspiracy theories, but that doesn't mean the facts haven't been decided yet.
The anime makes is impossible for Lelouch to have a code because that would have violated the rules the anime itself established.
The show staff have been saying non stop for 10 years "he'sdeadhe'sdeadhe'sdead"
The show staff have explicitly denied core points of core theory
the show staff have made a new epilogue in 2009 to hammer on the fact that he's dead.
But there will always be people who don't believe it because "they don't see the curvature" or "didn't see the body" (though we saw him literally bleed out on screen)

xscetia23 said:

Compare to other classic animes with memorable deaths, this one ain't even a clear one

A sword through the chest
Bleeding out
Epilogue confirming death
Show staff confirming dead.
Theories contradicted by the anime itself
--> not clear?

xscetia23 said:

and that change in CC cart scene just confirms they didnt expect stuff in their end part.

That argument makes no sense.
The fact they didn't predict wacky theories already shows that those wacky theories are wrong.
The show staff create the canon, not the fans.
If the show staff didn't put element xyz in the show, it's not in the show and thus not canon.
If they didn't expect those theories, it's clear they never put those theories in the show.
And thus, those theories aren't canon.
Misunderstandings by the fans are not canon.

xscetia23 said:

And the movie is NOT the answer. The movie is a sequel to the recap movies, not R2.

Generally speaking, you are correct here.
But the situation is more nuanced than that.
The movies, though they are AU, show that the lore is almost netirly the same.
When it comes to the rules of geasses and codes, the rules are identical,. the movies have shown us this.
And thus Lelouch's fate is also identical. Same rules + same end event = same result.

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i have few questions about R2 and recap movies (spoilers)

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