At least it was better than FLCL Alternative

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Dude, just...just quit trying....either that or actually try with this thread. Your choice, really

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Oct 14, 2018 5:30 AM

#4

EratiK

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I'm wondering, should I watch Alternative or Progressive first? I know one is the sequel of the other, but the airing order was the opposite, so I'm confused.

Oct 14, 2018 5:39 AM

#5

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EratiK said:
I'm wondering, should I watch Alternative or Progressive first? I know one is the sequel of the other, but the airing order was the opposite, so I'm confused.

It doesn't really matter, there's no continuity.

Oct 14, 2018 5:41 AM

#6

EratiK

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Oh okay, thanks a lot.

Oct 14, 2018 7:23 AM

#7

CatSoul

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Nah chief, this ain't it.

Alternative, while not as strong as FLCL, had its fun moments and a clear message. Progressive is a clusterfuck.

"No, son, you may not have your body pillow at the dinner table!"

Oct 15, 2018 12:28 AM

#8

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I must be in the very minority saying that I liked it.

Like, its not original FLCL but if you'd separate it from the original, its a decent show, even a great one. The fact that it had such a famous parent crippeled peoples perception of this season imo. Like people who haven't seen the first 6 episodes but would for some reason watch this ones would praise it, I bet.

Oct 15, 2018 5:45 AM

#9

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Apr 2016

4863

Klayton said:
I must be in the very minority saying that I liked it.

Like, its not original FLCL but if you'd separate it from the original, its a decent show, even a great one. The fact that it had such a famous parent crippeled peoples perception of this season imo. Like people who haven't seen the first 6 episodes but would for some reason watch this ones would praise it, I bet.

The thing I always find crippling about this kind of argument is the idea that you should separate a sequel from the original to view it in a better light, when that goes against the whole point of a sequel in the first place. A sequel should be viewed both in the context of its own merits as apiece work and the context of it being a sequel, given that it was created to be this way.

As a show in its own right, it’s mediocre. The visuals are subpar and awkward, there are barely any memorable pieces of music, the characters are generally underutilized and poorly written (the main character’s baggage, and Jinyu’s lack of actual effect on Haruko/Raharu after merging with her, both being prime examples of this), the setting that breaks immersions by having an actual slave factory in the outskirts of that’s supposed to be a bland Japanese city, and more.

Plus, it’s clear that there are certain plot points that demand you watch the original to understand, yet doing so actually damns Haruko’s character arc to oblivion in pretty much every way from beginning to end. As a sequel, this show is even worse, both in how it goes so far against the spirit of the original show, and in terms of how it contradicts said show, all while introducing elements that actually make no sense given the context of FLCL’s world and lore.

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Oct 15, 2018 10:12 AM

#10

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769

CodeBlazeFate said:

Klayton said:
I must be in the very minority saying that I liked it.

Like, its not original FLCL but if you'd separate it from the original, its a decent show, even a great one. The fact that it had such a famous parent crippeled peoples perception of this season imo. Like people who haven't seen the first 6 episodes but would for some reason watch this ones would praise it, I bet.

The thing I always find crippling about this kind of argument is the idea that you should separate a sequel from the original to view it in a better light, when that goes against the whole point of a sequel in the first place. A sequel should be viewed both in the context of its own merits as apiece work and the context of it being a sequel, given that it was created to be this way.

As a show in its own right, it’s mediocre. The visuals are subpar and awkward, there are barely any memorable pieces of music, the characters are generally underutilized and poorly written (the main character’s baggage, and Jinyu’s lack of actual effect on Haruko/Raharu after merging with her, both being prime examples of this), the setting that breaks immersions by having an actual slave factory in the outskirts of that’s supposed to be a bland Japanese city, and more.

Plus, it’s clear that there are certain plot points that demand you watch the original to understand, yet doing so actually damns Haruko’s character arc to oblivion in pretty much every way from beginning to end. As a sequel, this show is even worse, both in how it goes so far against the spirit of the original show, and in terms of how it contradicts said show, all while introducing elements that actually make no sense given the context of FLCL’s world and lore.

Except both FLCL sequels are not truly "sequels" and can be watched stand alone.
That's like saying 10 Cloverfield Lane and The Cloverfield Paradox are Cloverfield sequels. Yeah they utilize some common shared elements but are hardly connected otherwise. It's more of an Anthology universe.

Oct 15, 2018 11:33 AM

#11

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4863

dc22 said:

CodeBlazeFate said:

The thing I always find crippling about this kind of argument is the idea that you should separate a sequel from the original to view it in a better light, when that goes against the whole point of a sequel in the first place. A sequel should be viewed both in the context of its own merits as apiece work and the context of it being a sequel, given that it was created to be this way.

As a show in its own right, it’s mediocre. The visuals are subpar and awkward, there are barely any memorable pieces of music, the characters are generally underutilized and poorly written (the main character’s baggage, and Jinyu’s lack of actual effect on Haruko/Raharu after merging with her, both being prime examples of this), the setting that breaks immersions by having an actual slave factory in the outskirts of that’s supposed to be a bland Japanese city, and more.

Plus, it’s clear that there are certain plot points that demand you watch the original to understand, yet doing so actually damns Haruko’s character arc to oblivion in pretty much every way from beginning to end. As a sequel, this show is even worse, both in how it goes so far against the spirit of the original show, and in terms of how it contradicts said show, all while introducing elements that actually make no sense given the context of FLCL’s world and lore.

Except both FLCL sequels are not truly "sequels" and can be watched stand alone.
That's like saying 10 Cloverfield Lane and The Cloverfield Paradox are Cloverfield sequels. Yeah they utilize some common shared elements but are hardly connected otherwise. It's more of an Anthology universe.

Except that’s not an apt comparison. The Cloverfield movies are so loosely connected due to them being finished products that studio executives interfered with in order to have connections with the original Cloverfield movie shoehorned into them. FLCL Progressive canonically takes place after the original (with plot lines that directly tie into the original and cannot be understood optimally without watching the original), and Alternative...that one’s up in the air, really since it could either be a sequel or some alt universe for all we know or care. Point is, these sequels were written with every intention of being related to their predecessors. The other Cloverfield movies weren’t.

CodeBlazeFateOct 15, 2018 11:39 AM

Being wrong is just an occupational hazard.

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Oct 15, 2018 3:36 PM

#12

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21

CodeBlazeFate said:

Klayton said:
I must be in the very minority saying that I liked it.

Like, its not original FLCL but if you'd separate it from the original, its a decent show, even a great one. The fact that it had such a famous parent crippeled peoples perception of this season imo. Like people who haven't seen the first 6 episodes but would for some reason watch this ones would praise it, I bet.

The thing I always find crippling about this kind of argument is the idea that you should separate a sequel from the original to view it in a better light, when that goes against the whole point of a sequel in the first place. A sequel should be viewed both in the context of its own merits as apiece work and the context of it being a sequel, given that it was created to be this way.

As a show in its own right, it’s mediocre. The visuals are subpar and awkward, there are barely any memorable pieces of music, the characters are generally underutilized and poorly written (the main character’s baggage, and Jinyu’s lack of actual effect on Haruko/Raharu after merging with her, both being prime examples of this), the setting that breaks immersions by having an actual slave factory in the outskirts of that’s supposed to be a bland Japanese city, and more.

Plus, it’s clear that there are certain plot points that demand you watch the original to understand, yet doing so actually damns Haruko’s character arc to oblivion in pretty much every way from beginning to end. As a sequel, this show is even worse, both in how it goes so far against the spirit of the original show, and in terms of how it contradicts said show, all while introducing elements that actually make no sense given the context of FLCL’s world and lore.

People are judging the show for what it is not, rather for what it is. I don't think it is fair to reduce the score for something not because its bad but because its not genius. Idk, for me is like judging a kid for not being SS rank, becauss his older brother is.

And as stated above: the show is technicaly a sequel, but you can view it as standalone show.

Oct 15, 2018 3:45 PM

#13

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4863

Klayton said:

CodeBlazeFate said:

The thing I always find crippling about this kind of argument is the idea that you should separate a sequel from the original to view it in a better light, when that goes against the whole point of a sequel in the first place. A sequel should be viewed both in the context of its own merits as apiece work and the context of it being a sequel, given that it was created to be this way.

As a show in its own right, it’s mediocre. The visuals are subpar and awkward, there are barely any memorable pieces of music, the characters are generally underutilized and poorly written (the main character’s baggage, and Jinyu’s lack of actual effect on Haruko/Raharu after merging with her, both being prime examples of this), the setting that breaks immersions by having an actual slave factory in the outskirts of that’s supposed to be a bland Japanese city, and more.

Plus, it’s clear that there are certain plot points that demand you watch the original to understand, yet doing so actually damns Haruko’s character arc to oblivion in pretty much every way from beginning to end. As a sequel, this show is even worse, both in how it goes so far against the spirit of the original show, and in terms of how it contradicts said show, all while introducing elements that actually make no sense given the context of FLCL’s world and lore.

People are judging the show for what it is not, rather for what it is. I don't think it is fair to reduce the score for something not because its bad but because its not genius. Idk, for me is like judging a kid for not being SS rank, becauss his older brother is.

And as stated above: the show is technicaly a sequel, but you can view it as standalone show.

We still are though. We ain’t saying it has to be as good as the original, it just needs to function as a sequel and as a story, which Prog does neither of. No one here has been saying it needed to be as good otherwise it sucks. That’s dumb (hell, Alternative ain’t as good but I like it way more than the original). You cannot jew this as it’s own standalone show. As a sequel, you must also view it under the lens of how it affects the franchise’s narrative as a whole. You’re just nullifying the point of a sequel in the first place by trying to look at it as a stand-alone thing first and nothing else second.

Being wrong is just an occupational hazard.

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Oct 15, 2018 4:17 PM

#14

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21

CodeBlazeFate said:

Klayton said:

People are judging the show for what it is not, rather for what it is. I don't think it is fair to reduce the score for something not because its bad but because its not genius. Idk, for me is like judging a kid for not being SS rank, becauss his older brother is.

And as stated above: the show is technicaly a sequel, but you can view it as standalone show.

We still are though. We ain’t saying it has to be as good as the original, it just needs to function as a sequel and as a story, which Prog does neither of. No one here has been saying it needed to be as good otherwise it sucks. That’s dumb (hell, Alternative ain’t as good but I like it way more than the original). You cannot jew this as it’s own standalone show. As a sequel, you must also view it under the lens of how it affects the franchise’s narrative as a whole. You’re just nullifying the point of a sequel in the first place by trying to look at it as a stand-alone thing first and nothing else second.

The first season was a complete story, the only thing that makes it a sequel is mere existence of Haruko. Like there is nothing you would not understand without 1st season (if anything, it makes it more confusing).

Take a look at reviews of this season, they are filled with 1-3/10s, do you really think it deserves it? Its not good, but is really a Shitcom tier show, or are people just disappointed its not as good as original? It kinda reminds me how people were saying that Steins;gate 0 was the worst show of the season cuz it didn't live up to the parent show, but is that really fair? Is it really the worst show of the season?

Oct 15, 2018 4:27 PM

#15

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Apr 2016

4863

Klayton said:

CodeBlazeFate said:

Klayton said:

CodeBlazeFate said:

Klayton said:
I must be in the very minority saying that I liked it.

Like, its not original FLCL but if you'd separate it from the original, its a decent show, even a great one. The fact that it had such a famous parent crippeled peoples perception of this season imo. Like people who haven't seen the first 6 episodes but would for some reason watch this ones would praise it, I bet.

The thing I always find crippling about this kind of argument is the idea that you should separate a sequel from the original to view it in a better light, when that goes against the whole point of a sequel in the first place. A sequel should be viewed both in the context of its own merits as apiece work and the context of it being a sequel, given that it was created to be this way.

As a show in its own right, it’s mediocre. The visuals are subpar and awkward, there are barely any memorable pieces of music, the characters are generally underutilized and poorly written (the main character’s baggage, and Jinyu’s lack of actual effect on Haruko/Raharu after merging with her, both being prime examples of this), the setting that breaks immersions by having an actual slave factory in the outskirts of that’s supposed to be a bland Japanese city, and more.

Plus, it’s clear that there are certain plot points that demand you watch the original to understand, yet doing so actually damns Haruko’s character arc to oblivion in pretty much every way from beginning to end. As a sequel, this show is even worse, both in how it goes so far against the spirit of the original show, and in terms of how it contradicts said show, all while introducing elements that actually make no sense given the context of FLCL’s world and lore.

People are judging the show for what it is not, rather for what it is. I don't think it is fair to reduce the score for something not because its bad but because its not genius. Idk, for me is like judging a kid for not being SS rank, becauss his older brother is.

And as stated above: the show is technicaly a sequel, but you can view it as standalone show.

We still are though. We ain’t saying it has to be as good as the original, it just needs to function as a sequel and as a story, which Prog does neither of. No one here has been saying it needed to be as good otherwise it sucks. That’s dumb (hell, Alternative ain’t as good but I like it way more than the original). You cannot jew this as it’s own standalone show. As a sequel, you must also view it under the lens of how it affects the franchise’s narrative as a whole. You’re just nullifying the point of a sequel in the first place by trying to look at it as a stand-alone thing first and nothing else second.

The first season was a complete story, the only thing that makes it a sequel is mere existence of Haruko. Like there is nothing you would not understand without 1st season (if anything, it makes it more confusing).

Take a look at reviews of this season, they are filled with 1-3/10s, do you really think it deserves it? Its not good, but is really a Shitcom tier show, or are people just disappointed its not as good as original? It kinda reminds me how people are saying

What about the stuff with Atomisk and Canti? You’d have no idea about the Canti stuff in particular without the original, mainly because it expects you to have seen the original beforehand. Hell, the Canti stuff doesn’t make sense even after viewing both! The exact same thing applies for Haruko’s character arc. FLCL and Progressive both being complete stories doesn’t mean jackshit in regards to that. The original Mobile Suit Gundam and Zeta Gundam are entirely complete stories but without knowledge of what happened in the original, you won’t get he optimal experience or understanding of Zeta’s narrative, since it was built under the understanding that you have seen the original and knew what had happened in that show. Same applies here.

Get real and stop exaggerating. The top 3 gave it a 3 (which isn’t much harsher than it deserves) and 4th is an 8. If you wanna see legendarily negative popular reviews, go look at FranXX, where 3 of the top 4 gave it a 1. This is merely subpar review reception (even if the aggregate score is pretty negative by MAL standards). Exaggerating for the sake of some false narrative to try to prove your point won’t help you in an argument.

Being wrong is just an occupational hazard.

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Oct 15, 2018 5:47 PM

#16

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Apr 2017

21

CodeBlazeFate said:

Klayton said:

CodeBlazeFate said:

Klayton said:

CodeBlazeFate said:

Klayton said:
I must be in the very minority saying that I liked it.

Like, its not original FLCL but if you'd separate it from the original, its a decent show, even a great one. The fact that it had such a famous parent crippeled peoples perception of this season imo. Like people who haven't seen the first 6 episodes but would for some reason watch this ones would praise it, I bet.

The thing I always find crippling about this kind of argument is the idea that you should separate a sequel from the original to view it in a better light, when that goes against the whole point of a sequel in the first place. A sequel should be viewed both in the context of its own merits as apiece work and the context of it being a sequel, given that it was created to be this way.

As a show in its own right, it’s mediocre. The visuals are subpar and awkward, there are barely any memorable pieces of music, the characters are generally underutilized and poorly written (the main character’s baggage, and Jinyu’s lack of actual effect on Haruko/Raharu after merging with her, both being prime examples of this), the setting that breaks immersions by having an actual slave factory in the outskirts of that’s supposed to be a bland Japanese city, and more.

Plus, it’s clear that there are certain plot points that demand you watch the original to understand, yet doing so actually damns Haruko’s character arc to oblivion in pretty much every way from beginning to end. As a sequel, this show is even worse, both in how it goes so far against the spirit of the original show, and in terms of how it contradicts said show, all while introducing elements that actually make no sense given the context of FLCL’s world and lore.

People are judging the show for what it is not, rather for what it is. I don't think it is fair to reduce the score for something not because its bad but because its not genius. Idk, for me is like judging a kid for not being SS rank, becauss his older brother is.

And as stated above: the show is technicaly a sequel, but you can view it as standalone show.

We still are though. We ain’t saying it has to be as good as the original, it just needs to function as a sequel and as a story, which Prog does neither of. No one here has been saying it needed to be as good otherwise it sucks. That’s dumb (hell, Alternative ain’t as good but I like it way more than the original). You cannot jew this as it’s own standalone show. As a sequel, you must also view it under the lens of how it affects the franchise’s narrative as a whole. You’re just nullifying the point of a sequel in the first place by trying to look at it as a stand-alone thing first and nothing else second.

The first season was a complete story, the only thing that makes it a sequel is mere existence of Haruko. Like there is nothing you would not understand without 1st season (if anything, it makes it more confusing).

Take a look at reviews of this season, they are filled with 1-3/10s, do you really think it deserves it? Its not good, but is really a Shitcom tier show, or are people just disappointed its not as good as original? It kinda reminds me how people are saying

What about the stuff with Atomisk and Canti? You’d have no idea about the Canti stuff in particular without the original, mainly because it expects you to have seen the original beforehand. Hell, the Canti stuff doesn’t make sense even after viewing both! The exact same thing applies for Haruko’s character arc. FLCL and Progressive both being complete stories doesn’t mean jackshit in regards to that. The original Mobile Suit Gundam and Zeta Gundam are entirely complete stories but without knowledge of what happened in the original, you won’t get he optimal experience or understanding of Zeta’s narrative, since it was built under the understanding that you have seen the original and knew what had happened in that show. Same applies here.

Get real and stop exaggerating. The top 3 gave it a 3 (which isn’t much harsher than it deserves) and 4th is an 8. If you wanna see legendarily negative popular reviews, go look at FranXX, where 3 of the top 4 gave it a 1. This is merely subpar review reception (even if the aggregate score is pretty negative by MAL standards). Exaggerating for the sake of some false narrative to try to prove your point won’t help you in an argument.

Not sure what false narrative you are talking about, check YouTube reception or reddit, everyone talks about as if it was anrichrist of anime. 3/10s only proves my point.

Also, I guess we can only agree to disagree about if the sequel can stand on its own ground, but I didn't revisit FLCL before watching, and I'm pretty sure people can watch them in reverse and understand just as much as they would otherwise, its not like the show is explaining to you anything at all anyway.

Oct 15, 2018 6:02 PM

#17

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Apr 2016

4863

Klayton said:

CodeBlazeFate said:

Klayton said:

CodeBlazeFate said:

Klayton said:

CodeBlazeFate said:

Klayton said:
I must be in the very minority saying that I liked it.

Like, its not original FLCL but if you'd separate it from the original, its a decent show, even a great one. The fact that it had such a famous parent crippeled peoples perception of this season imo. Like people who haven't seen the first 6 episodes but would for some reason watch this ones would praise it, I bet.

The thing I always find crippling about this kind of argument is the idea that you should separate a sequel from the original to view it in a better light, when that goes against the whole point of a sequel in the first place. A sequel should be viewed both in the context of its own merits as apiece work and the context of it being a sequel, given that it was created to be this way.

As a show in its own right, it’s mediocre. The visuals are subpar and awkward, there are barely any memorable pieces of music, the characters are generally underutilized and poorly written (the main character’s baggage, and Jinyu’s lack of actual effect on Haruko/Raharu after merging with her, both being prime examples of this), the setting that breaks immersions by having an actual slave factory in the outskirts of that’s supposed to be a bland Japanese city, and more.

Plus, it’s clear that there are certain plot points that demand you watch the original to understand, yet doing so actually damns Haruko’s character arc to oblivion in pretty much every way from beginning to end. As a sequel, this show is even worse, both in how it goes so far against the spirit of the original show, and in terms of how it contradicts said show, all while introducing elements that actually make no sense given the context of FLCL’s world and lore.

People are judging the show for what it is not, rather for what it is. I don't think it is fair to reduce the score for something not because its bad but because its not genius. Idk, for me is like judging a kid for not being SS rank, becauss his older brother is.

And as stated above: the show is technicaly a sequel, but you can view it as standalone show.

We still are though. We ain’t saying it has to be as good as the original, it just needs to function as a sequel and as a story, which Prog does neither of. No one here has been saying it needed to be as good otherwise it sucks. That’s dumb (hell, Alternative ain’t as good but I like it way more than the original). You cannot jew this as it’s own standalone show. As a sequel, you must also view it under the lens of how it affects the franchise’s narrative as a whole. You’re just nullifying the point of a sequel in the first place by trying to look at it as a stand-alone thing first and nothing else second.

The first season was a complete story, the only thing that makes it a sequel is mere existence of Haruko. Like there is nothing you would not understand without 1st season (if anything, it makes it more confusing).

Take a look at reviews of this season, they are filled with 1-3/10s, do you really think it deserves it? Its not good, but is really a Shitcom tier show, or are people just disappointed its not as good as original? It kinda reminds me how people are saying

What about the stuff with Atomisk and Canti? You’d have no idea about the Canti stuff in particular without the original, mainly because it expects you to have seen the original beforehand. Hell, the Canti stuff doesn’t make sense even after viewing both! The exact same thing applies for Haruko’s character arc. FLCL and Progressive both being complete stories doesn’t mean jackshit in regards to that. The original Mobile Suit Gundam and Zeta Gundam are entirely complete stories but without knowledge of what happened in the original, you won’t get he optimal experience or understanding of Zeta’s narrative, since it was built under the understanding that you have seen the original and knew what had happened in that show. Same applies here.

Get real and stop exaggerating. The top 3 gave it a 3 (which isn’t much harsher than it deserves) and 4th is an 8. If you wanna see legendarily negative popular reviews, go look at FranXX, where 3 of the top 4 gave it a 1. This is merely subpar review reception (even if the aggregate score is pretty negative by MAL standards). Exaggerating for the sake of some false narrative to try to prove your point won’t help you in an argument.

Not sure what false narrative you are talking about, check YouTube reception or reddit, everyone talks about as if it was anrichrist of anime. 3/10s only proves my point.

Also, I guess we can only agree to disagree about if the sequel can stand on its own ground, but I didn't revisit FLCL before watching, and I'm pretty sure people can watch them in reverse and understand just as much as they would otherwise, its not like the show is explaining to you anything at all anyway.

They treat it like they would any bad sequel. It’s not like it’s so actively despised in general and such an acceptable target to the point of annoyance by people who want something different to talk about that there’s a significant amount of backlash on the backlash (like with FranXX or SAO). 3/10 is a very negative score, but not so savagely negative that it’s proof of the utmost hatred and lack of worth to be seen in the show by the people who give it such a rating. That’s what 1s and to a lesser extent, 2s are for. YouTube reception isn’t anywhere near as bad as MAL, with there being more videos that praise it than demonize it. Even then, the only vid where the maker in question violently hates the show is Digibro’s.

Admittedly, I’m mainly arguing from the standpoint of its intentions. If I were to go further on the executions, I’d argue heavily how a lot of what Prog does actually breaks the original show if you know about it, so in a way, it might be safer to watch this show before the original.

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Jun 2, 2019 4:03 AM

#18

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Sep 2009

1214

CatSoul said:
Nah chief, this ain't it.

Alternative, while not as strong as FLCL, had its fun moments and a clear message. Progressive is a clusterfuck.

I already shelved Progressive in the same place I did Eureka Seven AO. Didn't happen. It tried to hard to be FLCL that it ended up as un-fucking-FLCL as it could of been.

Alternative at least gave it a damn good shot. It understood the strength of FLCL wasn't found in it's absurdity or wackiness, but it's subtly. It took steps back as well as slowed it down it and ended up being more faithful because of it. I would of been happy if they just released Alternative. It's no FLCL but at least they took it upon themselves to do it right.

Jun 14, 2019 12:32 PM

#19

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Oct 2013

769

LordLagann said:

CatSoul said:
Nah chief, this ain't it.

Alternative, while not as strong as FLCL, had its fun moments and a clear message. Progressive is a clusterfuck.

I already shelved Progressive in the same place I did Eureka Seven AO. Didn't happen. It tried to hard to be FLCL that it ended up as un-fucking-FLCL as it could of been.

Alternative at least gave it a damn good shot. It understood the strength of FLCL wasn't found in it's absurdity or wackiness, but it's subtly. It took steps back as well as slowed it down it and ended up being more faithful because of it. I would of been happy if they just released Alternative. It's no FLCL but at least they took it upon themselves to do it right.

It ended up not feelling like FLCL at all. Just the typical moe blob show.

Progressive actually feels like sequel, not a spin-off.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kVCWA2CsjA

Jun 15, 2019 12:45 AM

#20

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Sep 2009

1214

dc22 said:

It ended up not feelling like FLCL at all. Just the typical moe blob show.

Progressive actually feels like sequel, not a spin-off.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kVCWA2CsjA

I gotta disagree whole heartily. The idea that the show's identity is a critique on it's own identity is dubious at best. A lot of the points made are also a stretch since if we take what's state in the video as truth then the show itself is doubling down towards critique and not the narrative; which is in itself asinine. FLCL was never a critique about itself and Progressive doesn't do itself justice by trying to outwit the original.

This is where Alternative rises above just being a copy cat. It's clearly more self aware about the time period it's in and the state Anime has changed to. Instead of rebelling against it and trying to cash in on nostalgia, it embraces the new surroundings and tries establish it's own identity. That's more true to FLCL than anything Progressive did *exaggerating*.

Jun 15, 2019 5:23 PM

#21

Offline

Oct 2013

769

LordLagann said:

dc22 said:

It ended up not feelling like FLCL at all. Just the typical moe blob show.

Progressive actually feels like sequel, not a spin-off.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kVCWA2CsjA

I gotta disagree whole heartily. The idea that the show's identity is a critique on it's own identity is dubious at best. A lot of the points made are also a stretch since if we take what's state in the video as truth then the show itself is doubling down towards critique and not the narrative; which is in itself asinine. FLCL was never a critique about itself and Progressive doesn't do itself justice by trying to outwit the original.

This is where Alternative rises above just being a copy cat. It's clearly more self aware about the time period it's in and the state Anime has changed to. Instead of rebelling against it and trying to cash in on nostalgia, it embraces the new surroundings and tries establish it's own identity. That's more true to FLCL than anything Progressive did *exaggerating*.

No, Progressive is more self aware. It says it can't possibly be what FLCL was - lightning in a bottle - but it tries anyway to create it's own fireworks.

To me, Alternative is more clearly a cash in.
Some generic high school girls show with a FLCL coat of paint.
Like there's not enough of those already.

Jun 16, 2019 1:08 AM

#22

Offline

Sep 2009

1214

dc22 said:

No, Progressive is more self aware. It says it can't possibly be what FLCL was - lightning in a bottle - but it tries anyway to create it's own fireworks.

To me, Alternative is more clearly a cash in.
Some generic high school girls show with a FLCL coat of paint.
Like there's not enough of those already.

How is it self aware exactly? All it does is reference the original without connecting it back to the story at hand. It's just a string of empty call backs when you just leave them there for us to gawk at. I also believed that it might have been the case which it was self aware and would try somehow to remake itself because of it. That would of been brilliant. The theory quickly fell apart when they threw the canon out of the window and made a mockery of the Haruko and Atomsk. If there was ever a dead give away that Progressive sole purpose was to yank at our nostalgia it's how they treated those two characters.

Progressive tries to be FLCL without understanding what FLCL was.

I'm not saying Alternative got it perfect either. I've got issues with that as well but they obviously understood the current climate of Anime and tried to incorporate modern sensibilities with FLCL aesthetics. THAT's the heart of FLCL. An attempt to break out of the lines and rules that every other show in the industry is dictated by. It came much closer to capturing that because it wasn't trying to outwit the original but taking FLCL and showing us what it would of been like if it was aired in 2018.

Alternative understood FLCL but tries to adopt it's own personality.

Not making any assumptions or anything but I think you should probably reevaluate your definition of generic high school girls show and moeblobs. I feel that's the big distinction between out viewpoints. Whether you think shows are classified as such because they look like they do or if they're actually are generic high school moeblobs. If not we'll probably end up agreeing to disagree.

Jun 16, 2019 5:23 AM

#23

Offline

Oct 2013

769

LordLagann said:

How is it self aware exactly? All it does is reference the original without connecting it back to the story at hand. It's just a string of empty call backs when you just leave them there for us to gawk at. I also believed that it might have been the case which it was self aware and would try somehow to remake itself because of it. That would of been brilliant. The theory quickly fell apart when they threw the canon out of the window and made a mockery of the Haruko and Atomsk. If there was ever a dead give away that Progressive sole purpose was to yank at our nostalgia it's how they treated those two characters.

Progressive tries to be FLCL without understanding what FLCL was.

I'm not saying Alternative got it perfect either. I've got issues with that as well but they obviously understood the current climate of Anime and tried to incorporate modern sensibilities with FLCL aesthetics. THAT's the heart of FLCL. An attempt to break out of the lines and rules that every other show in the industry is dictated by. It came much closer to capturing that because it wasn't trying to outwit the original but taking FLCL and showing us what it would of been like if it was aired in 2018.

Alternative understood FLCL but tries to adopt it's own personality.

Not making any assumptions or anything but I think you should probably reevaluate your definition of generic high school girls show and moeblobs. I feel that's the big distinction between out viewpoints. Whether you think shows are classified as such because they look like they do or if they're actually are generic high school moeblobs. If not we'll probably end up agreeing to disagree.

It does connect with the original, through Haruko and Atomsk.
They weren't butchered, they were exactly the same as in the original FLCL, the difference being that Haruko actually caught him for a short while.
Progressive is, like FLCL, a coming of age of the characters around Haruko.
She herself never grows ("Never Knows Best") and is stuck in an eternally 19 years old body. That's also why she never stops chasing Atomsk.

Alternative side steps Haruko and Atomsk for a focus on the characters, but they are not very interesting imo. That why I feel it's just a FLCL coat of paint on a basic "last year of school before separation" plot.

If you wanted a sequel, this is Progressive.
If you didn't wanted a sequel, there is (an) Alternative.
The names make sense.

Jun 16, 2019 3:33 PM

#24

Offline

Sep 2009

1214

dc22 said:

It does connect with the original, through Haruko and Atomsk.
They weren't butchered, they were exactly the same as in the original FLCL, the difference being that Haruko actually caught him for a short while.
Progressive is, like FLCL, a coming of age of the characters around Haruko.
She herself never grows ("Never Knows Best") and is stuck in an eternally 19 years old body. That's also why she never stops chasing Atomsk.

Alternative side steps Haruko and Atomsk for a focus on the characters, but they are not very interesting imo. That why I feel it's just a FLCL coat of paint on a basic "last year of school before separation" plot.

If you wanted a sequel, this is Progressive.
If you didn't wanted a sequel, there is (an) Alternative.
The names make sense.

Well there it is, I found the crux of our disagreement. It may be enough for you but simply throwing old characters back in is not what I call tying two stories together; especially when they are a shallow representation of what they actually were. The story was never about Haruko and her quest to chase Atomsk. That was just the backdrop to pull Naota out of his comfort zone and show him the world though her eyes. It also wasn't a coming of age story as there was never any significance placed on manhood. It's these little things that explains why you don't see the mistakes that Progressive makes and why you're entirely focused on the shallow aspects of the show instead of the essence.

You would've never equated Haruko and Atomsk as being "the same" otherwise. Progressive portrays her as short-minded lunatic which is a complete 180 of who she was in FLCL. Don't even get me started on Atomsk... LIKE WHY DOES HE LOOK LIKE THAT??? The Pirate King for crying out loud...

I agree that Alternative sorta toned down the fan service but as I mentioned the story was never about Haruko and Atomsk. People who've went out of their way to shift though the story piece by piece knows they're purpose is to help shape underlying narrative of Naota and his struggle.

As far as naming goes I'm still not exactly sure why it's so. If I had to guess it'd be because Progressive is meant to capture the progressive attitude that modern society is so obsessed with (the damn show is chock full of this shit). If that's the case then it's right on the money since that attitude is more often damaging than it is constructive. It's a mentality that everyone superscribes to but no one knows why = Progressive.
Alternative on the other hand would probably mean the unpopular opinion; maybe things shouldn't always be so quick to change and that's not always a bad thing. Instead of constantly being bombarded with an ocean of opinions and ideas, it moves at a slower pace giving us time to appreciate the things around us = Alternative.

Jun 16, 2019 4:20 PM

#25

Offline

Oct 2013

769

LordLagann said:

dc22 said:

It does connect with the original, through Haruko and Atomsk.
They weren't butchered, they were exactly the same as in the original FLCL, the difference being that Haruko actually caught him for a short while.
Progressive is, like FLCL, a coming of age of the characters around Haruko.
She herself never grows ("Never Knows Best") and is stuck in an eternally 19 years old body. That's also why she never stops chasing Atomsk.

Alternative side steps Haruko and Atomsk for a focus on the characters, but they are not very interesting imo. That why I feel it's just a FLCL coat of paint on a basic "last year of school before separation" plot.

If you wanted a sequel, this is Progressive.
If you didn't wanted a sequel, there is (an) Alternative.
The names make sense.

Well there it is, I found the crux of our disagreement. It may be enough for you but simply throwing old characters back in is not what I call tying two stories together; especially when they are a shallow representation of what they actually were. The story was never about Haruko and her quest to chase Atomsk. That was just the backdrop to pull Naota out of his comfort zone and show him the world though her eyes. It also wasn't a coming of age story as there was never any significance placed on manhood. It's these little things that explains why you don't see the mistakes that Progressive makes and why you're entirely focused on the shallow aspects of the show instead of the essence.

You would've never equated Haruko and Atomsk as being "the same" otherwise. Progressive portrays her as short-minded lunatic which is a complete 180 of who she was in FLCL. Don't even get me started on Atomsk... LIKE WHY DOES HE LOOK LIKE THAT??? The Pirate King for crying out loud...

I agree that Alternative sorta toned down the fan service but as I mentioned the story was never about Haruko and Atomsk. People who've went out of their way to shift though the story piece by piece knows they're purpose is to help shape underlying narrative of Naota and his struggle.

As far as naming goes I'm still not exactly sure why it's so. If I had to guess it'd be because Progressive is meant to capture the progressive attitude that modern society is so obsessed with (the damn show is chock full of this shit). If that's the case then it's right on the money since that attitude is more often damaging than it is constructive. It's a mentality that everyone superscribes to but no one knows why = Progressive.
Alternative on the other hand would probably mean the unpopular opinion; maybe things shouldn't always be so quick to change and that's not always a bad thing. Instead of constantly being bombarded with an ocean of opinions and ideas, it moves at a slower pace giving us time to appreciate the things around us = Alternative.

The story was ALWAYS about Haruko chasing Atomsk, at least on a superficial level. That gets way more developed in Progressive through her double persona, which is why she is seemingly out of character - Raharu is her Id, Jinryu is her Super Ego, neither acts completely like Haruko.

Atomsk true brid form rarely appears, he's mostly taking an humanoid form by possesing humans. Not that wierd.

Didn't you read what I said? The story is never truly about the Haruko, but she is always the catalyst for the story. The story is about the MC kids coming into contact with her and growing up, either through experiences, advice or conflict. In that way Alternative is not that...alternative.

Jun 17, 2019 12:33 AM

#26