Is the ending an anime original?

Oriotiar said:
It would have been even better if the 2 of them had died

Tenderizer17 said:

1. Satou comes off as a very smart character, so having her die as the result of an utterly absurd coincidence is very dissatisfying.
2. The entirety of the last episode is just incredibly messy.
3. What exactly is the "best case scenario"? Shio and Satou can't keep up the charade forever, so there's nothing really to be lost by either of their deaths. The ideal ending would be an ambiguous one, one which avoids these questions.
4. This show isn't grounded enough to be tragic.

Oriotiar said:
1. She was clever, but she make mistake, even before that: she kill without taking care of witness, never wear glove, at time isn't able to control herself.
2. Didn't feel that way to me. The last part, when they go back to the building, sure, it was messy but that because they're not following the plan anymore.
3. I don't really see what is an ambiguous ending for you ?
I think the best end for them was dying, because both of them aknowledge that they love each other more than anything, and that after the whole incident they won't be able to be together, so it best to died now while they're together.
4. It's not a tragic end, the whole show was about Satou distorded love and view on the world, and for her, dying with the person she love is a happy ending (at least before she realise that she has other fealing beside love for Shio), so i think that end was a happy ending. With Satou happy, and Shio kind of sad but stoping to just be a cute little and starting her own obsession.

I feel like an end in the middle would have been the worst, cause that show would probably not had a s2, and that the kind of story that need an end, show based on tension can't just leave the end to the viewer imagination.

Tenderizer17 said:

1. Her murders never have witnesses, she never leaves any connection between her fingerprints and the crime and her being unable to control herself at times is her weakness. However, all that's irrelevant because like I said, she's smart (whether infallible or not) and that makes it feel really cheap when she dies because of a coincidence.
2. It wasn't messy from an events POV, it's messy from a writing POV. All the plot threads are wrapped up hastily and poorly.
3. They were literally steps away from being together, the only thing that was really changed by them going back is that Asahi knows about the murder. Shio said she wants to stay with Satou, so perhaps it's safe to assume Asahi would keep quiet about it for at least a bit, long enough for them to get to the other end of the country. The ambiguity comes from the fact that they're still going to be subject to conflict. Perhaps the final scene would be them riding on a train together leaving town, insert some sweet dialogue and you're all set. That's the ambiguous ending I was hoping for.
4. The ending wasn't a happy ending. It wasn't a tragic ending either, it was kind of just ... I guess "obligatory ending" was what it felt like. An ending that exists solely to be dramatic. Dying with the person she loves isn't Satou's happy ending. Satou has a distorted view of love, but it's not one that would lead her to want to die with Shio. She values time together with Shio more than anything, her happiness is to be with Shio. To say "Dying with the person she loves is a happy ending" is a deliberate, inexplicable alteration of Satou's character for the sake of convenience.

An "end in the middle" approach would be a massive improvement on what we got. You can't have a drama with stakes worth caring about, and then casually dismiss those with a rushed ending. I would actually call an "end in the middle" ending a happy ending in this case. Satou's happiness is to be with Shio, so an ending where she's with Shio, even if they're still in danger, is a happy ending.

Oriotiar said:
I prefer that end, which i continue to think fit more the tone and themes of the series.

Oriotiar said:
She leave a witness the blond boy, he was out during the murder but saw her leaving the parc, she could have easly kill him while she was kill the 2 other. She didn't leave connection but it's never a good idea too let fingerprint allover the place even more when you're commiting multiple murder and know that some people (here the teacher) know that you're killing people.
Coincidence are what lead many real life killer to their downfall, luck is an important parameter.

Oriotiar said:
Don't see what you find messy, we already know that her friend was suspecting her and that asahi was suspecting the blond boy. The part with her friend being here just at the right moment is a little forced but far from unbelivable.

Oriotiar said:
The fact that she choose Satou over her brother who was shearching for her, and more importantly declare that all by herself after reflecting on the situation, was a huge step in their relationship, because before that Shio was kind to everyone and her respond were more affection (like between mother and child) than love between lover.
Asahi wasn't the sole problem the police would probably had come in.
But i agree that ending with the train would also had be good.

Oriotiar said:
I continue to think that's a happy ending, true in other circonstances Satou would had do her best to live with Shio. But here it's dubious do think she could escape, she is a yandere not a super human. So being happy to died with her love one in that situation feel totaly in characters, even more when Shio is the one proposing it , echoing with the vow they make thougthout the serie.

Tenderizer17 said:
You say the ending fits with the tone and themes of the series, but I think it does neither.

The tone of Happy Sugar Life is a mix between to Another and Death Note. The final episode is also a mix of the final episode of each. The final episode of Death Note works because the world is the focus of the narrative, whereas in Happy Sugar Life the characters are. In Death Note the world still exists at the end of the narrative, in Happy Sugar Life the characters SHOULD still exist at the end of the narrative. That wasn't related to the tone at all, so tone of Happy Sugar Life is ... it's really had to define an anime's tone. The tone of Happy Sugar Life is ........................ "grounded murderous pseudo-romance about twisted personalities". That works. So the tone of "grounded murderous pseudo-romance about twisted personalities" is undermined by everything going down in a big spectacular fire. It's more typical of the series for Satou to make small tweaks to the world at a time, and burning everything at once is like going from the first to last episode of Gurren Lagann without any of the episodes inbetween. It's a drastic tone shift. Tone shifts can be drastic, but only if there are smaller shifts in tone throughout. The tone of Happy Sugar Life is pretty consistent.

The themes of Happy Sugar Life are another area which I'll have difficulty to define (since I'm not good at analysing the themes of anime). I can't actually figure out what the themes are. Please tell me (and if you just say "love" I won't accept that answer, "love" isn't a theme, it's a ... genre). What does it say thematically for her death to be because of her sentimentality? What does it say thematically for it to not work out between her and Shio? For the latter, is says "don't be a yandere". For the former, it says "don't be sentimental"? I'm sorry, but I just don't get what this show is trying to say. It doesn't need to say anything, but if you insist it has themes, they're themes I can't identify.

I see what you mean. I assumed you meant witnesses to the murders, not the kidnapping. Still, that wasn't an error in judgement, leaving him alive in that moment was the correct decision. Killing him there would've been a problem.

I'm pretty sure Satou didn't kill the thugs, just removed their eyes (unless I'm mistaken). Where did the bodies go if they were killed?

Coincidence lead real life killers to their downfall, but a coincidence isn't necessarily this convenient and dramatic.

Damn, this is going to be really difficult to get across.

To start with, Satou and Shio jumping off the building is a messy ending. The kind of ending that says "everything before this didn't really matter". Asahi gets convinced to let Shio live with Satou way too quickly. The teacher gets arrested despite their being no evidence against him.

I give up trying to explain this, trying to remember details about that travesty of an episode is torture.

That character development means nothing with Satou's death immediately following. The police wouldn't have come in, since the fire's still burning. "I can agree than an end where she didn't forget the ring and safely took the train, would also have been nice": "also" doesn't belong in that sentence.

She isn't a superhuman, but she's a competent human being. Escaping that situation is entirely plausible. A true ending in line with the characters, is one where Satou would desperately search for a way to protect Shio. Shio hasn't developed so far as to suggest they die together, and Satou is clearly not the type to abandon all hope.

Also, lets not forget the fact that Asahi left Shio for dead.

Last Minute Comment: I'm sorry if my arguments are poor, I'll correct them if necessary.

Anyway, I think I've got a step closer to figuring out the themes of Happy Sugar Life "love is selfishness" is probably the best starting point for figuring this all out.

Tenderizer17 said:
@Oriotiar This is a waste of time.

For the record, this isn't me reading your argument and giving up (like everyone seems to assume to when I abandon an argument). I saw the size of your message and figured that this is just going to spiral out of control.

The first 11 episodes are based on a source material, but episode 12 isn't. Whatever appeal episode 12 has, it isn't one that's entirely shared with the rest of the series, and thus anyone who comes to the series for what the first eleven episodes have to offer is in for disappointment unless they just so happen to also like what episode 12 has to offer.

Episode 12 is absolute garbage, I know that for sure as someone who considered the first 11 episodes to be a 10/10.