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Apr 5, 2016 11:51 AM
#101
Mukade said: ma103 said: Ishida should seriously consider 'fixing' the manga for whiners who virtually contributes zero cent to his revenue. Yes. Valid criticisms of egregious plot armor and asspull last minute rescues is "whining." Unlike you, I hold Tokyo Ghoul to a higher standard than a battle shounen. >zero cents cents to Ishida's earnings. Just for you, wise ass :^) But if we are to subscribe to your sophistry, that being the criticism of a reader who contributes to Ishida's earnings is more valid than one who does not: show me your contribution so that I can discern whether or not your opinion supersedes mine in importance. I'll wait :) There is no perfect pacing to leave everyone satisfied. Not sure if their dislike for Touka is the main reason. Maybe chapter sure feel slow if your hated character is making appearances throughout the whole chapter? "MUH TOUKA!!!" Will you please stop being a triggered waifufag? Why are you only fixated on Touka when I explicitly argued all three of them, including Yomo and Ayato, should be dead? If not dead, then the loss of a limb or being dangerously close the verge of death due to mortal injures would have sufficed. We do not even get that. Arima all of a sudden just seems he cannot properly exterminate ghouls due to their newfound teleportation powers. I have to suspend my disbelief. I would have given it a pass if they were pit up against any other Special Class not named Arima Kishou. They have literally survived longer Kaneki, Eto, and Shachi. Their plot armor is that just that brazen. And why would I "skip pages" of the story because a character I allegedly "hate" appears? Do you have any idea how ludicrous this is? I do not "hate" Touka; I loathe the fact she and Yomo were arbitrarily forced into this raid with zero foreshadowing and their family drama is hijacking the prison break after 100+ chapters of irrelevance. And what is worse, they are fighting someone who should be able to kill them in seconds, but they cannot even be injured properly because plot armor. Right now, I want all three of them, not just your precious waifu: gone. greenchuck said: And if I came off as aggressive that was not my intent, just curious… No, you were quite respectful. No worries. :p I have disagree with Hide having "greatest impact for him wanting to kill himself more than anyone else." His mother is the catalyst for that. If you read carefully, Kaneki is perverting the reasoning for Hide's sacrifice and tailoring it to fit his suicidal ideology. It is more obvious in the raws, but Ishida overlaps the "For someone else" over ("in a cool way") - which is in smaller text and overlaps "I want to risk my life" over ("I want to die."): verbatim ch. 53. It is true he wants to sacrifice himself, but he is not doing it for the same reasons as Hide: it is nothing more than a childish self serving desire at the expense of everyone who cares for him. That said, I also believe Hide's "death" is playing a large contribution to his present mindset. Having lost the only long lasting "emotional support" in his life, even if Hide wanted him to live, I think it's quite natural this would make the idea of dying far more appealing to Kaneki. I do not know exactly what it would take for Kaneki to come to his senses. But his best friend who he has known for most of his life and was his true only support - is the only person who can save him singlehandedly in the context of good writing. Touka's slap and "muh wisdom" is the absolutely worst thing Ishida can possibly do. I don't really care if Touka plays a role in saving him; Kaneki needs support from virtually everyone. But I draw a line at her being some one of a kind magic cure despite barely knowing him. I also argue Kaneki requires additional life experience and introspection before he can properly develop; like when he realized seeking power singlemindedly was a danger to him and those important to him in the Kanou lab raid. We will have to wait and see, but I will hold up faith Ishida executes in a believable way consistent with his past writing: barring the last handful of plot armor chapters. All those TG goodies... *drools* (\\ ͡°\\ ͜ʖ\\ ͡°\\) Jokes aside, you're pretty much on point. Just because someone's a Toukafag (in this case) doesn't mean he should defend obvious plot armor that protects her and flaws in writing of her even being there. For example, I'm a Furutafag but I call bullshit on him being in every damn faction in the manga, and him knowing that Eto taped him. I'm a Etofag, but I call bullshit on her knowing everything because 'muh mother's diary' and her teleporting around with Kaneki at the beginning of this arc. Shit writing is shit writing, just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's not there. This arc is rather exciting in terms of reveals and impending confrontations but Ishida is kind of faltering with his writing at the moment. Rue Island will probably make up for it though. |
Apr 5, 2016 12:40 PM
#102
Nuvviveji said: and her teleporting around with Kaneki at the beginning of this arc. Shit writing is shit writing, just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's not there. This arc is rather exciting in terms of reveals and impending confrontations but Ishida is kind of faltering with his writing at the moment. Rue Island will probably make up for it though. I also enjoy Eto as a character, that said, this entire fiasco was BS. Why did Kaneki pointlessly wait 6 months to pursue her? Why was Eto not immediately arrested upon turning herself in? Why was she allowed to have a press conference (which Urie pointed out?) Why the hell was an "in depth investigation" needed to determine if she were a ghoul when she publicly outed herself as a ghoul and exposed her kakugan on live television? Why has Kaiko not had her offed yet as V wants her dead, but suddenly they need to keep her alive for info in the offchance she isn't OEK when there is nothing pointing to the contrary? The Tsukiyama family and other ghouls have had no such luxuries. And Furuta's dialogue with her chapter 68 all but confirms she will escape when she recoups with Kaneki. It makes all the "lolEtodeathflags" "Eto gonna die this arc" posts I read laughable. It's like they are completely blind to plot armor. I like Eto, but her survival so far is also a stretch. Characters literally need to incur brain damage for her plans to work. And you're spot on. It's fine to enjoy characters, but shit writing is shit writing. And I consider myself one of Ishida's biggest fanboys. No matter how much I like a character, if their plot armor shines way too brightly, I have to criticize it. |
Apr 5, 2016 1:30 PM
#103
I'd wait before criticizing js, you all know Ishida is gonna explain us everything. |
"I'm not gonna die, I've got a cat that's waiting for me at home" |
Apr 5, 2016 6:04 PM
#104
Let's just pray Touka dies in the following chapters. |
Apr 5, 2016 6:57 PM
#105
It's not surprising arima hasn't killed them yet. Way I see it is this manga is much more realistic and there isn't massive power level variance. It's much closer to real life where you could take the best fighter in the world who dismantles anyone else easily 1v1 but throw them in there with 3-4 unskilled guys and he gets smashed. Using dbz power levels I think its something like this Average internet troll human:5 Athletic male:10 Extremely skilled and athletic fighter:15 Average ccg person: 18 Special class: 30 arima: 60 touka(s): 22 ayato(ss): 30 yomo(sss?): 35 kaneki(sss):50 |
Apr 5, 2016 8:03 PM
#106
n0thinglasts said: It's not surprising arima hasn't killed them yet. Way I see it is this manga is much more realistic and there isn't massive power level variance. It's much closer to real life where you could take the best fighter in the world who dismantles anyone else easily 1v1 but throw them in there with 3-4 unskilled guys and he gets smashed. Using dbz power levels I think its something like this Average internet troll human:5 Athletic male:10 Extremely skilled and athletic fighter:15 Average ccg person: 18 Special class: 30 arima: 60 touka(s): 22 ayato(ss): 30 yomo(sss?): 35 kaneki(sss):50 >Yomo >SSS Kek. Anyway, I would ordinarily agree with what you're saying. But Arima is quite frankly the opposite of what you are describing. In every way possible, as a matter of fact. He shatters any illusion of "realism" the series has in terms of his battle prowess. He is literally out of place in the TG universe. 3-4 ghouls? Trouble for the CCG's Reaper? I don't think so. http://i.imgur.com/ubnn1w8.png http://i.imgur.com/G274cwb.jpg They should be dead because Arima is unfathomably unrealistic. He's more than capable of finishing them; he literally has not broken a sweat and couldn't be any more casual. They are only still alive because Ishida was pulling out all the ridiculous stops (thus why characters can now teleport) until he could draw Kaneki saving them on the last page of 71. |
Apr 5, 2016 9:04 PM
#107
Mukade said: I also enjoy Eto as a character, that said, this entire fiasco was BS. Why did Kaneki pointlessly wait 6 months to pursue her? Why was Eto not immediately arrested upon turning herself in? Why was she allowed to have a press conference (which Urie pointed out?) Why the hell was an "in depth investigation" needed to determine if she were a ghoul when she publicly outed herself as a ghoul and exposed her kakugan on live television? Why has Kaiko not had her offed yet as V wants her dead, but suddenly they need to keep her alive for info in the offchance she isn't OEK when there is nothing pointing to the contrary? The Tsukiyama family and other ghouls have had no such luxuries. And Furuta's dialogue with her chapter 68 all but confirms she will escape when she recoups with Kaneki. It makes all the "lolEtodeathflags" "Eto gonna die this arc" posts I read laughable. It's like they are completely blind to plot armor. I like Eto, but her survival so far is also a stretch. Characters literally need to incur brain damage for her plans to work. And you're spot on. It's fine to enjoy characters, but shit writing is shit writing. And I consider myself one of Ishida's biggest fanboys. No matter how much I like a character, if their plot armor shines way too brightly, I have to criticize it. Most of these complaints make no sense... We do not know why Kaneki waited 6 months yet, that doesn't mean they were "pointless". Eto was under arrest as she made the press conference... Why was she allowed to do one while under arrest? Because the one who arrested her was... Kaneki, who is clearly biased towards Takatsuki Sen. As you said, even Urie mentioned how idiotic it was. No other investigator would've allowed this. Kaiko/V didn't want Eto dead, because they couldn't just assume Eto was the king based on chance. As for the Arima thing... I agree. Arima should've killed the Kirishimas+Yomo off by now, but there could be a variety of reasons for why he hasn't done it: he could be tired of being a "dog" for the Washuus; have a death wish himself; be waiting for Kaneki so he can kill them in front of him and inflict more trauma; be evaluating them because they would make nice quinques... etc. I would wait for the arc to end before calling Ishida's writing shitty. |
ph4zoNApr 5, 2016 9:25 PM
Apr 6, 2016 12:36 AM
#108
ph4zoN said: Most of these complaints make no sense... …I don’t see what is nonsensical? My criticisms are very straight forward. ph4zoN said: We do not know why Kaneki waited 6 months yet, that doesn't mean they were "pointless". Perhaps you could argue this point when Ishida kept readers locked out of Kaneki’s psyche: this is no longer applicable. I certainly rationalized it: “Oh. He’s racking up achievements to get promoted so he can carry out his own investigation. He wants to use her somehow to advance his goals while keeping it on the low from the CCG.” Yeah no. His plan was literally to just to lock her up (where she would eventually be disposed of) and then fuck off and die. That’s it. So yes, those six months of inactivity were the epitome of pointless. He was not going to make any use of her whatsoever with the “power” he reigned over her. All it did was postpone the inevitable. For all the effort, he could literally killed her on the spot atop the lunatic eclipse, or told Ui after his long hard battle with the stairs that “Takatsuki Sen is the One Eyed Owl.” and the result would have been the same. Eto is either killed instantly or incarcerated. And again, this is something he could have accomplished very long ago. I’m open to hear any reasonable arguments as of to how these 6 months had any real meaning behind them outside of Ishida wanting Eto to release Bileygr King first with Kaneki on stage with her (in addition to the ch. 63 "I am a ghoul" parallel.) Eto was under arrest as she made the press conference... Why was she allowed to do one while under arrest? Because the one who arrested her was... Kaneki, who is clearly biased towards Takatsuki Sen. Please re-read chapter 63. Eto was given permission from the CCG Bureau to carry out her press conference. Kaneki knew nothing about it until she requested that he accompany her. And she was given this permission after Kaneki had already obtained her real name: Yoshimura (same last name as non-killing Owl) Eto (Aogiri executive) and after Kaneki made it clear the “One Eyed King” was someone with social power (eg. A best selling author.) She was already under “suspicion” of being the Owl. Which makes it even more absurd they only had one Investigator shadowing her: I don’t care if it’s Kaneki. This is the One Eyed Owl and supposed “King.” Yet they let her talk. The only way this could even partially make sense is if V greenlit it, but they would have had nothing to gain from it and her little speech is already threatening their “equilibrium.” And this is not counting the “hurdur we’re gonna keep you in corniculum until we confirm you’re a ghoul – even though you just exposed yourself.” WTF? Lock her up for real. Kaiko/V didn't want Eto dead, because they couldn't just assume Eto was the king based on chance. Seeing as how the Washuu are in direct cahoots with V, and Tsuneyoshi believed Owl = King, I sincerely doubt V thought any differently. They knew the Owl was the founder of Aogiri and that this individual has been long considered the “King.” And also taking into account how Arima was definitely going to kill her ass at the end of part 1 and how they (V) have been trying to hunt her down for ages, I wouldn’t be too sure about them wanting her alive. But I do see your point. I won’t stress it. I just don’t completely agree with it. he could be tired of being a "dog" for the Washuus; have a death wish himself; be waiting for Kaneki so he can kill them in front of him and inflict more trauma; be evaluating them because they would make nice quinques... etc. Why bother trying to extrapolate? It's plot armor, plain and simple. I would wait for the arc to end before calling Ishida's writing shitty. You can feel free to wait. I’ve already made my judgment. I am not saying it is “shitty”, but parts of it have been. I have enjoyed the arc overall so far, but the story hasn’t exactly been up to its normal standard since Kaneki regained his memories. Too much plot induced stupidity, plot armor, and coincidences. You mean to tell me after all this time, Ayato picked the same day, hour, and goddamned minute as Kaneki to break out Hinami (and Touka and Yomo somehow snuck in Banjou’s group) and this was not planned at all? Just one massive coincidental clusterfuck of a reunion? Yeah, Ishida is definitely slipping this arc in my opinion. Kaneki could have at least somehow tag teamed with Ayato (he could have been the one to steal the access card for him) – and I would be far less irritated with what we currently have. One thing I enjoy about TG is the amount of realism as far as how Ishida handles these type of events. Not getting that at all from this arc, honestly. It’s decent, but it’s chalking up to being my least favorite thus far. |
Apr 6, 2016 3:12 AM
#109
Apr 6, 2016 4:34 AM
#110
Ulquiorra said: That Arima just doesn't want to go down already. Considering Arima's records, I will say the opposite, those Kirishimas just don't die quickly |
Apr 6, 2016 8:08 AM
#111
Mukade said: Perhaps you could argue this point when Ishida kept readers locked out of Kaneki’s psyche: this is no longer applicable. I certainly rationalized it: “Oh. He’s racking up achievements to get promoted so he can carry out his own investigation. He wants to use her somehow to advance his goals while keeping it on the low from the CCG.” Yeah no. His plan was literally to just to lock her up (where she would eventually be disposed of) and then fuck off and die. That’s it. So yes, those six months of inactivity were the epitome of pointless. He was not going to make any use of her whatsoever with the “power” he reigned over her. All it did was postpone the inevitable. For all the effort, he could literally killed her on the spot atop the lunatic eclipse, or told Ui after his long hard battle with the stairs that “Takatsuki Sen is the One Eyed Owl.” and the result would have been the same. Eto is either killed instantly or incarcerated. And again, this is something he could have accomplished very long ago. I’m open to hear any reasonable arguments as of to how these 6 months had any real meaning behind them outside of Ishida wanting Eto to release Bileygr King first with Kaneki on stage with her (in addition to the ch. 63 "I am a ghoul" parallel.) I honestly don't know why Kaneki waited so long before arresting Eto, but if I had to guess, I think all that preparation was so he could break Hinami out of Cochlea and Eto's arrest was secondary. He did say that only Cochlea employees knew where ghouls were being incarcerated, and he knew how to open cells from the control room, so perhaps he was getting info on this throughout those months... I just find it hard to believe that Kaneki's plan would simply be: capture eto and die, especially after these panels were shown: Mukade said: Please re-read chapter 63. Eto was given permission from the CCG Bureau to carry out her press conference. Kaneki knew nothing about it until she requested that he accompany her. And she was given this permission after Kaneki had already obtained her real name: Yoshimura (same last name as non-killing Owl) Eto (Aogiri executive) and after Kaneki made it clear the “One Eyed King” was someone with social power (eg. A best selling author.) She was already under “suspicion” of being the Owl. Which makes it even more absurd they only had one Investigator shadowing her: I don’t care if it’s Kaneki. This is the One Eyed Owl and supposed “King.” Yet they let her talk. The only way this could even partially make sense is if V greenlit it, but they would have had nothing to gain from it and her little speech is already threatening their “equilibrium.” And this is not counting the “hurdur we’re gonna keep you in corniculum until we confirm you’re a ghoul – even though you just exposed yourself.” WTF? Lock her up for real. Yeah I hadn't noticed that part, thanks. Maybe Eto offered something the bureau wanted so they would let her do it? She was the leader of Aogiri after all, and she's pretty good at manipulating people... Mukade said: Why bother trying to extrapolate? It's plot armor, plain and simple. I do that a lot, haha. It's because I have a lot of faith in Ishida's writing at this point. I don't wanna call it plot armor just yet because I think deaths are incoming. At least Yomo's, I'm pretty sure. And I definitely think something's odd about Arima at the moment(and that's why he's not killing anyone), but I guess we'll have our answers soon enough. Mukade said: You can feel free to wait. I’ve already made my judgment. I am not saying it is “shitty”, but parts of it have been. I have enjoyed the arc overall so far, but the story hasn’t exactly been up to its normal standard since Kaneki regained his memories. Too much plot induced stupidity, plot armor, and coincidences. You mean to tell me after all this time, Ayato picked the same day, hour, and goddamned minute as Kaneki to break out Hinami (and Touka and Yomo somehow snuck in Banjou’s group) and this was not planned at all? Just one massive coincidental clusterfuck of a reunion? Yeah, Ishida is definitely slipping this arc in my opinion. Kaneki could have at least somehow tag teamed with Ayato (he could have been the one to steal the access card for him) – and I would be far less irritated with what we currently have. One thing I enjoy about TG is the amount of realism as far as how Ishida handles these type of events. Not getting that at all from this arc, honestly. It’s decent, but it’s chalking up to being my least favorite thus far. Fair enough. I'm still convinced that the card came from Kaneki... I do think it's too much of a coincidence... but maybe Ayato isn't aware of it? Have we been shown otherwise? |
ph4zoNApr 6, 2016 8:16 AM
Apr 6, 2016 11:16 AM
#112
Mukade said: ma103 said: Ishida should seriously consider 'fixing' the manga for whiners who virtually contributes zero cent to his revenue. Yes. Valid criticisms of egregious plot armor and asspull last minute rescues is "whining." Unlike you, I hold Tokyo Ghoul to a higher standard than a battle shounen. >zero cents cents to Ishida's earnings. Just for you, wise ass :^) But if we are to subscribe to your sophistry, that being the criticism of a reader who contributes to Ishida's earnings is more valid than one who does not: show me your contribution so that I can discern whether or not your opinion supersedes mine in importance. I'll wait :) There is no perfect pacing to leave everyone satisfied. Not sure if their dislike for Touka is the main reason. Maybe chapter sure feel slow if your hated character is making appearances throughout the whole chapter? "MUH TOUKA!!!" Will you please stop being a triggered waifufag? Why are you only fixated on Touka when I explicitly argued all three of them, including Yomo and Ayato, should be dead? If not dead, then the loss of a limb or being dangerously close the verge of death due to mortal injures would have sufficed. We do not even get that. Arima all of a sudden just seems he cannot properly exterminate ghouls due to their newfound teleportation powers. I have to suspend my disbelief. I would have given it a pass if they were pit up against any other Special Class not named Arima Kishou. They have literally survived longer Kaneki, Eto, and Shachi. Their plot armor is that just that brazen. And why would I "skip pages" of the story because a character I allegedly "hate" appears? Do you have any idea how ludicrous this is? I do not "hate" Touka; I loathe the fact she and Yomo were arbitrarily forced into this raid with zero foreshadowing and their family drama is hijacking the prison break after 100+ chapters of irrelevance. And what is worse, they are fighting someone who should be able to kill them in seconds, but they cannot even be injured properly because plot armor. Right now, I want all three of them, not just your precious waifu: gone. Nice effort on the scans. Must be tough ordering :re volume 2 given the cover. Cute assumption of my expectation of the manga but I can’t expect much sense from you anyway. I don’t find the need to show you my “collections” but have to admit you do have more of them so I’ll take back my words. I can’t help but to be entertained by the names calling though. What’s next? Ishidafag? I might do the same if I am still a 12 years old. Back to the chapter, while it seems “plot armor” is dragging the fight, there is no indicator that Arima is going all out to kill them. To me, he just seems to be coasting around and have another goal in mind. After being shown that he is taking orders from V, I don’t think he is the typical investigator who kills/captures all ghouls on sight. Regarding the numerous last minute saves, that is bound to happen if you’re fighting a team of families. They will actually look out for each other. Of course it’s best to take down Arima but I believe their main priority is getting out alive. By the way, previous opponents like Kaneki, Eto and Shachi are taking on Arima alone. I have to disagree that the trio have nothing to do with this arc. I don’t have to state the obvious reason why are they joining the raid. You don’t need foreshadowing for something obvious like this. You think :re and Ayato will just abandon Hinami? I find it ironic when haters are complaining irrelevancy of certain characters but complains doesn’t stop when Ishida re-introduces them back to the story. And aren’t you asking too much when you wanted them to be injured “properly”? If you recall when Kaneki pierced Yomo, he didn't even flinch. He has shown to be able to take hits well. If you want them to die so much for the sake of dying then so be it. Let’s wait till the end of the arc and see if your criticism about plot armor is valid. |
Apr 6, 2016 1:01 PM
#113
ph4zoN said: ... I just find it hard to believe that Kaneki's plan would simply be: capture eto and die, especially after these panels were shown: These were my thoughts at the time too. "Time is precious" (seriously, an unauthorized search? He would have had to have an invested personal interest in this, right?) And using Eto as a tool to break out Hinami was my #1 bet. I thought he would: A. Blackmail her. In exchange for keeping her identity secret, she must use Aogiri to raid Cochlea. Give her blueprints? Guard shifts? Whatever. Just get Hinami out. Eto would also benefit from this arrangement as she needs the manpower. B. Lock her up so that Aogiri may feel compelled to break her out, and in turn release Hinami in the process of their raid (along with many other ghouls of course.) C. Make a deal with Eto to serve as a distraction if he breaks Hinami out himself (Eto actually offered this in chapter 66, but Kaneki really didn't give a damn.) So like you, I'm lost. I cannot see any reason for the 6 month respite. You would think he was planning on using her somehow as he waited until the last possible minute before Hinami's disposal to act. But that doesn't seem to be the case here at all. ph4zoN said: I do that a lot, haha. It's because I have a lot of faith in Ishida's writing at this point. I don't wanna call it plot armor just yet because I think deaths are incoming. At least Yomo's, I'm pretty sure. And I definitely think something's odd about Arima at the moment(and that's why he's not killing anyone), but I guess we'll have our answers soon enough. Keep the faith, brother. I still have mine, but it is not as strong it was once before. ;_; ph4zoN said: I'm still convinced that the card came from Kaneki... I do think it's too much of a coincidence... but maybe Ayato isn't aware of it? Have we been shown otherwise? Did you mean "maybe Ayato is aware of it?" Because he definitely isn't aware. He had no idea why the sirens were going off before they even broke in. When Banjou asked him the reason why, Ayato says that he "doesn't know who", "but someone is opening the isolation cells." In response to ma103: ma103 said: Must be tough ordering :re volume 2 given the cover. It stabbed me straight through the heart. So much buyer's remorse. Fuck Touka. ma103 said: What’s next? Ishidafag? I might do the same if I am still a 12 years old. Textbook definition of ironic. "Toukafag" was the exact term you used to describe yourself in another topic. You being a Toukafag are your own words, thus why I felt the wording was appropriate. there is no indicator that Arima is going all out to kill them. This was never the point. He should never have to go all out; he is Arima. This is the problem: Regarding the numerous last minute saves, that is bound to happen if you’re fighting a team of families. I do not care if they are a family. There is no excuse for these constant teleportations. By the way, previous opponents like Kaneki, Eto and Shachi are taking on Arima alone. ...And? See post 108. Numbers are nothing for Arima. And the fact the ghouls mentioned above are of the absolute strongest class, yet Arima deals with them with zero effort - makes it even more questionable why Touka, Ayato, and Yomo are alive. Kaneki was penetrated via Arima-san's sadistic and massive IXA within 3 seconds of meeting him. Kaneki never even had a chance to react, and if he were any other ghoul with normal regen, he would have died instantly. That would have been the case the Kirishimas as well, but plot armor so no. You don’t need foreshadowing for something obvious like this.You think :re and Ayato will just abandon Hinami? Are you properly thinking out these responses before you post? Yes, yes you do need foreshadowing or build up for their reintroduction if you do not want the effect to feel forced. I know full well Ayato would at least attempt to bail Hinami, it was foreshadowed (there is that word again) in chapter 33. :re on the other hand have been sitting on their asses and should not know anything at all (and borderline nonexistent in the story), but if "lolBanjou told us" and bringing their family drama out of nowhere into this prison break is decent writing you, then there's nothing more to say. I find it ironic when haters are complaining irrelevancy of certain characters but complains doesn’t stop when Ishida re-introduces them back to the story. No one is complaining that they have been re-introduced, it is how they are being re-introduced that people like me are criticizing. What part of that are you not getting? And aren’t you asking too much when you wanted them to be injured “properly”? >Yomo blocking an attack meant to kill Ayato, an attack proven to be able to slice through the arm of Eto's kakuja tank, with his bare arms and taking absolutely no damage. >Ayato only getting a little cut in the shoulder while Touka *gasps* only gets knocked to the floor and her mask comes off. The horror! >Meanwhile Kuzen who can take on multiple special classes at once loses an arm and is forced to retreat, dozens upon dozens of ghouls in V14 are slaughtered like livestock, Shachi is stabbed through the throat and electrocuted, Eto is stabbed, loses an arm, is electrocuted and forced to flee, as Kaneki gets his very identity skullfucked out of him and only survives because god-tier regen and MC plot armor. If you want them to die so much for the sake of dying then so be it. I do not know how in the world you are getting this from my posts. I just want this fight to be believable, and believable means losing some limbs or dying. Didn't I already say I wouldn't have this complaint if they were fighting any other Special Class Investigator? ...Why is this so hard for you to get? Let’s wait till the end of the arc and see if your criticism about plot armor is valid. As much as I hope you are right and that Arima will kill at least one of them (Yomo is the one who is really pushing it) - now that Kaneki is here, I have no hope. They're basically set to escape. |
MukadeApr 6, 2016 1:04 PM
Apr 6, 2016 1:28 PM
#114
Mukade said: Did you mean "maybe Ayato is aware of it?" Because he definitely isn't aware. He had no idea why the sirens were going off before they even broke in. When Banjou asked him the reason why, Ayato says that he "doesn't know who", "but someone is opening the isolation cells." Nah, I know he's not aware of who's opening the cells. I was thinking that maybe Kaneki sent him the card anonymously, and thus Ayato doesn't know Kaneki is helping him out... but that's probably too much of a stretch and he got it from someone else. I hope we find out who it was before the arc ends... |
Apr 6, 2016 5:16 PM
#115
Mukade said: You mean to tell me after all this time, Ayato picked the same day, hour, and goddamned minute as Kaneki to break out Hinami (and Touka and Yomo somehow snuck in Banjou’s group) and this was not planned at all? Just one massive coincidental clusterfuck of a reunion? Yeah, Ishida is definitely slipping this arc in my opinion. Kaneki could have at least somehow tag teamed with Ayato (he could have been the one to steal the access card for him) – and I would be far less irritated with what we currently have. One thing I enjoy about TG is the amount of realism as far as how Ishida handles these type of events. Not getting that at all from this arc, honestly. It’s decent, but it’s chalking up to being my least favorite thus far. "You mean to tell me after all this time, Ayato picked the same day, hour, and goddamned minute as Kaneki to break out Hinami..." Well, for someone who got a key to access Cochlea I do not think it hard to find out the date, hour and goddamned minute in which the Rue island's invasion operation was started, as well where much of the ccg's attention is focused, and take this as a favorable opportunity to invade Cochlea, as Kaneki did to release the Hinami. "...and Touka and Yomo somehow snuck in Banjou’s group" Banjou needed a large group of ghouls to invade Cochlea is not hard to imagine that he was behind all ghoul he knew to join the gang (even more ghouls who are somehow familiar with Hinami). |
Apr 6, 2016 5:24 PM
#116
haunter_ex said: Well, for someone who got a key to access Cochlea I do not think it hard to find out the date, hour and goddamned minute in which the Rue island's invasion operation was started, as well where much of the ccg's attention is focused, and take this as a favorable opportunity to invade Cochlea, as Kaneki did to release the Hinami. The operation on Rueshima is estimated to take from one week up until a month. This timing is too convenient no matter how you slice it. haunter_ex said: Banjou needed a large group of ghouls to invade Cochlea is not hard to imagine that he was behind all ghoul he knew to join the gang (even more ghouls who are somehow familiar with Hinami). Again, this in itself is not the problem. It is how :re who have been nonexistent in the story appearing out of literally no where with no build up and are hijacking the prison raid with their family drama. If we were given some of their perspective or they were even semi-relevant in the story, I would not be complaining. After all this time out of the spotlight, their inclusion in an event like this is forced from a story telling point of view. |
Apr 6, 2016 9:00 PM
#117
Mukade said: Textbook definition of ironic. "Toukafag" was the exact term you used to describe yourself in another topic. You being a Toukafag are your own words, thus why I felt the wording was appropriate. That names calling remark was sarcasm directed to this post below. I am not even quoting you at that point of time. My post was quoted and rephrased. Nuvviveji said: ma103 said: I'm a toukafag. FTFY, objectively it's either Eto or Hinami, the 'imouto' route is highly unlikely so...yea Eto=>Roma>others If anything, my bad for stooping so low but let’s just leave it at that and don’t give that attention seeker what he wants. This shows there is a possibility that he is going easy at them. But I will leave it till the end of the arc as everything seems pretty grey to me. Mukade said: I do not care if they are a family. There is no excuse for these constant teleportations. Well it’s not like they are that far away from each other. As you may know Ishida is not the best fight scene illustrator and at times he tends to “summarizes” or get straight to the point. In-between movements may be disregarded to create the shock factor. I have lost count of the teleportations just from Tokyo Ghoul :re itself and I suppose there are fair share of teleportations for every arc to promote consistency. Mukade said: ...And? See post 108. Numbers are nothing for Arima. And the fact the ghouls mentioned above are of the absolute strongest class, yet Arima deals with them with zero effort - makes it even more questionable why Touka, Ayato, and Yomo are alive. Kaneki was penetrated via Arima-san's sadistic and massive IXA within 3 seconds of meeting him. Kaneki never even had a chance to react, and if he were any other ghoul with normal regen, he would have died instantly. That would have been the case the Kirishimas as well, but plot armor so no. The battles are fought off-scenes so we weren’t shown how serious he is. Then again, I will wait till the end to see if he has any other motivations for holding back, if any. Mukade said: Are you properly thinking out these responses before you post? Yes, yes you do need foreshadowing or build up for their reintroduction if you do not want the effect to feel forced. I know full well Ayato would at least attempt to bail Hinami, it was foreshadowed (there is that word again) in chapter 33. :re on the other hand have been sitting on their asses and should not know anything at all (and borderline nonexistent in the story), but if "lolBanjou told us" and bringing their family drama out of nowhere into this prison break is decent writing you, then there's nothing more to say. I see nothing unusual with Banjou seeking as much help as he can get though. Not sure if you see that as an asspull but let’s just agree to disagree. Mukade said: No one is complaining that they have been re-introduced, it is how they are being re-introduced that people like me are criticizing. What part of that are you not getting? Hopefully I interpreted their post wrongly and they’re not that dumb. Not everyone will feel forced if there is no foreshadowing. By the way I wonder if you consider this as foreshadowing. Mukade said: >Yomo blocking an attack meant to kill Ayato, an attack proven to be able to slice through the arm of Eto's kakuja tank, with his bare arms and taking absolutely no damage. >Ayato only getting a little cut in the shoulder while Touka *gasps* only gets knocked to the floor and her mask comes off. The horror! >Meanwhile Kuzen who can take on multiple special classes at once loses an arm and is forced to retreat, dozens upon dozens of ghouls in V14 are slaughtered like livestock, Shachi is stabbed through the throat and electrocuted, Eto is stabbed, loses an arm, is electrocuted and forced to flee, as Kaneki gets his very identity skullfucked out of him and only survives because god-tier regen and MC plot armor. Then again, this traces back to my speculation on Arima holding back. The first thought I had as soon as Ayato started engaging Arima is something is off when Ayato is surviving the fight for at least a few exchanges. You could argue that it’s my faith in Ishida that he shouldn’t be so careless and misrepresents the power levels. There has to be a underlying reason for that. Mukade said: As much as I hope you are right and that Arima will kill at least one of them (Yomo is the one who is really pushing it) - now that Kaneki is here, I have no hope. They're basically set to escape. I believe time is running out for them once the RC suppressant gas gets to them. I could be wrong but Eto is likely the next teleportation candidate (lol) to save their asses. |
Apr 7, 2016 12:48 PM
#118
Mukade said: Is Ishida getting writing advice from Kubo? There have been more asspulled last minute saves in the last 3 chapters than the entirety of part 1. The only way Ishida can "fix" this for me is if the Kirishimas fuck off with Hinami after their little forced reunion so I can enjoy the Kaneki vs Arima rematch in peace. Their presence is seriously ruining this for me. Will you marry me? |
Apr 7, 2016 12:49 PM
#119
Mukade said: ph4zoN said: Z4k said: Shachi lost because he forgot to wear his plot armor unlike the kirishima siblings. I wouldn't call it plot armor just yet. Arima could be holding back for a reason. I agree with z4K. It is blatant plot armor, and it's nauseating. There are only so many shameless asspulls I can take before I have to call BS. We already know Ishida has no (apparent) plans of killing off the Kirishimas, so forcing them into the plot with their family drama against Arima is beyond stupid. They should be dead. All three of them. Wasn't it lovely how Touka (her and Yomo's out of the blue presence here is contrived enough as it is) managed to pull Ayato away from Narukami's lightning seconds before he was fried? Wasn't it awesome how just before Ayato was about to sliced to death with Narukami, Yomo used Shunpo and jumped in front of the attack despite being nowhere in the general fucking area on a straight narrow platform? Wasn't it amazing how his arms sustained zero damage when Eto's kakuja arm was cut instantly? Wasn't the "Gate 3 is opened" timing impeccable, just so they can all escape certain death from Arima? Wasn't it incredible how Touka cannot even sacrifice herself correctly? Wasn't it awe-inspiring when just before Arima was going to deliver the deathblow to Yomo, literally fucking centimeters above his head - Ayato magically appears in between him and the attack to block it? Wasn't it cool that as soon as Arima effortlessly knocked Touka and Ayato the floor, moments from being finished off, Yomo gets a shounen-tier power boost because "muh hope", "muh sista", "muh blood", and manages to distract Arima? Whoopey! And wasn't it mindblowing when Kaneki appeared via instant transmission and blocked Arima's attack from killing Yomo, when the lightning was literally breathing on his face just a page before? Is Ishida getting writing advice from Kubo? There have been more asspulled last minute saves in the last 3 chapters than the entirety of part 1. The only way Ishida can "fix" this for me is if the Kirishimas fuck off with Hinami after their little forced reunion so I can enjoy the Kaneki vs Arima rematch in peace. Their presence is seriously ruining this for me. Are you people seriously going to bitch like crazy, even though you aren't contributing towards the creation of the manga? Seriously though get a life, if you don't like the way things are going then go make a fucking fanfic or just stop reading for a few chapters. |
Apr 7, 2016 1:16 PM
#120
>can't criticise something because you didn't make it >unable to understand the concept of criticism Made me laugh, splendid. Stay angry, newfriend. ( ͡°ᗜ ͡°) |
Apr 7, 2016 1:34 PM
#121
n0thinglasts said: You seem the most rational right now and this makes senseIt's not surprising arima hasn't killed them yet. Way I see it is this manga is much more realistic and there isn't massive power level variance. It's much closer to real life where you could take the best fighter in the world who dismantles anyone else easily 1v1 but throw them in there with 3-4 unskilled guys and he gets smashed. Using dbz power levels I think its something like this Average internet troll human:5 Athletic male:10 Extremely skilled and athletic fighter:15 Average ccg person: 18 Special class: 30 arima: 60 touka(s): 22 ayato(ss): 30 yomo(sss?): 35 kaneki(sss):50 Also idk why everytime something "shounen" happens people loose their mind. I mean the man is a fan of shounen series so he more than likely implements it in his story. And as always we have to wait for explanations for certain things since time reveals all in this story |
Apr 7, 2016 1:36 PM
#122
@mukade I'm sorry kubo hurt your feelings with whatever he did but that much salt is not healthy figuratively or literally |
Apr 7, 2016 2:57 PM
#123
I'm never going to get tired of spamming this pic |
"I'm not gonna die, I've got a cat that's waiting for me at home" |
Apr 7, 2016 3:00 PM
#124
B-but he's pointing to the right. |
Apr 7, 2016 3:08 PM
#125
Nuvviveji said: B-but he's pointing to the right. Got me. wordslimitwordslimit |
"I'm not gonna die, I've got a cat that's waiting for me at home" |
Apr 7, 2016 4:33 PM
#126
Mukade said: haunter_ex said: Well, for someone who got a key to access Cochlea I do not think it hard to find out the date, hour and goddamned minute in which the Rue island's invasion operation was started, as well where much of the ccg's attention is focused, and take this as a favorable opportunity to invade Cochlea, as Kaneki did to release the Hinami. The operation on Rueshima is estimated to take from one week up until a month. This timing is too convenient no matter how you slice it. haunter_ex said: Banjou needed a large group of ghouls to invade Cochlea is not hard to imagine that he was behind all ghoul he knew to join the gang (even more ghouls who are somehow familiar with Hinami). Again, this in itself is not the problem. It is how :re who have been nonexistent in the story appearing out of literally no where with no build up and are hijacking the prison raid with their family drama. If we were given some of their perspective or they were even semi-relevant in the story, I would not be complaining. After all this time out of the spotlight, their inclusion in an event like this is forced from a story telling point of view. "The operation on Rueshima is estimated to take from one week up until a month. This timing is too convenient no matter how you slice it." Ah, the time of Rue's mission is not important in this matter, the important thing is how long the Hinami still has as also the most favorable opportunity to act. "Again, this in itself is not the problem. It is how :re who have been nonexistent in the story appearing out of literally no where with no build up and are hijacking the prison raid with their family drama. If we were given some of their perspective or they were even semi-relevant in the story, I would not be complaining. After all this time out of the spotlight, their inclusion in an event like this is forced from a story telling point of view." I don't dare say how someone should tell her story, I'd rather see how the mangaka will unfold the history of your way, if Ishida, with the vision of the whole story, decided that there is (or maybe not, everything is possible) a moment more suitable for building up of the :re, I prefer to wait and see. And despite being a family drama, for me it was a reasonable reason, but for you was an insufficient reason. Oh, I'm not disagreeing with you, you have a point. But for me it is early to say if the Ishida made some slips even when much has happened so far, it's kind unfair to a mangaka that I find amazing. :) |
Apr 7, 2016 4:56 PM
#127
Fair points, ma103. That's pretty reasonable. I do not really have anything else to add, but I understand you better now. As for Eto randomly teleporting into the fight, ordinarily I'd shrug an idea like that off, but that this rate it seems to be becoming increasingly more and more possible. :/ Pic related. http://i.imgur.com/J9Du9Ga.png GodofWar2015 said: Are you people seriously going to bitch like crazy, even though you aren't contributing towards the creation of the manga? Seriously though get a life, if you don't like the way things are going then go make a fucking fanfic or just stop reading for a few chapters. By your "logic" we should never criticize anything ever if we played zero role in its creation. " How dare you say that cheeseburger from Burger King you bought with your hard earned money tasted like shit! You didn't make it! Get a life a make a better burger or go eat somewhere else, you whiny loser!" That is literally how you sound. Even if I did not buy the manga, I am still entitled to an opinion that isn't mindless circle jerking. I also find it ironic you tell someone to "get a life" then "go make a fucking fan fic." Do you even have a clue what you are trying to say? mochakawaiibear said: @mukade I'm sorry kubo hurt your feelings with whatever he did but that much salt is not healthy figuratively or literally Oh, the classic "le epic salt XD!!!" If you are going to respond to me, I would at least prefer you try to establish an actual point. |
Apr 7, 2016 5:35 PM
#128
@mukade if you're gonna shit on kubo at least not make it about General shounen troupes xD!!! |
Apr 9, 2016 5:00 AM
#129
WIELDU said: Let's just pray Touka dies in the following chapters. What has Touka to do with this chapter ? anyway i didn't understand almost half of this chapter , when u put flashback in middle of fight i suffer. |
Apr 9, 2016 5:59 AM
#130
You didn't understand half of the manga... a chapter is no big deal. I'm sure you can deal with it ^^. |
Apr 11, 2016 8:06 PM
#131
OK chapter, flashback felt like it didn't add more to it, would have liked to see more of Yomo in action, even if it was against Arima. Really would like to know what happening on the island though, wonder when it'll be switched to the events there. |
May 11, 2016 12:24 PM
#132
Nov 6, 2019 1:49 PM
#135
Cozatto said: Hmmmmm... Chapter 68>> Ayato is in danger Chapter 69>> Yomo and Touka appear and save him Chapter 70>> Yomo is in danger Chapter 71>> Kaneki saves Yomo So what's next? Kaneki getting rekt by Arima and Eto appears to save him??? Thanks for summing up. Although I always enjoy some backstories, the entrance of yomo and touka was so random that I actually lost track of the story. |
Feb 28, 2021 3:47 PM
#136
this chapter was an absolute masterpiece of a chapter, that ending had me screaming on the top of my lungs |
Mar 24, 2021 2:45 AM
#137
Oh, biy. Wow. Really sad that Yomo felt he could not do anything. If he had continued Raging he would have died for sure! That was Kaneki right?!? Yes! |
--AbiSa-- |
Apr 29, 2023 10:45 AM
#138
the plot is soo confusing bro they keep switching settings, theres so many random characters and storylines popping up. hard to follow. but i love the art and dark vibe. shits still top tier for me |
Apr 29, 2023 10:46 AM
#139
arima is literally god level, no one touching him rn |
Jun 7, 1:12 PM
#140
Oct 16, 8:14 AM
#141
I wasn't expecting Arima to be the killer even though I realize Renji have something against Arima. I hope of a long Renji vs Arima fight. |
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