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| THIS IS A MANGA ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS ANYTHING BEYOND THIS CHAPTER. ---------------------------------------- Ah their final reunion and last chapter. Surprisingly, I thought the ending/finale chapter was refreshing; nothing really dramatic. |
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| One thing that was a bit confusing .. in the 2nd to last pane it looks like Akio and the chick that had the hots for him are getting it on. So .. assuming that is so Yoshino and Akio really haven't got back together, but are at least talking to each other now. Still Yoshino was as bitchy as normal. I don't think there was even an apology from her about her behavior! |
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scruffykiwi said: One thing that was a bit confusing .. in the 2nd to last pane it looks like Akio and the chick that had the hots for him are getting it on. I thought he was akio's friend who lent him lighter the first time they met and his gf (who's also akio's friend) |
| They said they were better prepared this time but it actually amounts to nothing. I guess by prepared they meant they can reasonably expect what's going to hit the fan if they broke up again. Right from the start, Yoshino was the one initiating contact. She was the more desperate party to get back together with Akio although the part where Akio shouted instinctively 'Don't come back' shocked her and she tried helplessly to defuse the situation as a joke. However, gradually during their phone conversation, Akio goes back to be a doormat and Yoshino sense it. Basically lowering himself to ask Yoshino out first which is ideal for her since she's such a prideful person. This is why once Yoshino sees Akio was a willing party too, she herself goes back to the 'rational' figure of the relationship. Her figure of speech becomes more authoritative and not as nice as before. It's not a bad thing since this is probably closer to her natural self. She also laid down the boundaries, reminded Akio to think hard about what they have been through, their current circumstances and to take it slowly. While I found this tidbits was interesting and true to some extent, I just can't help but to feel disappointed with Akio because at the end of the day, his reasoning to go back with Yoshino was simply sex. What happened to the lesson learn from Yoshimura? Akio clearly replied to Yoshino that he didn't thought of it too deeply of their r/s in the future. What makes this matter worst was Yoshino didn't say a single shit about Hasegawa incident besides dismissing as a 'dumbest thing imaginable'. It's not that I feel that Yoshino isn't putting any effort to make the 2nd time works, she was, and thought hard about it. She even attempt to inquire about Yoshimura to learn more about what Akio has been through and his state of mind. It's just that they didn't address the reason they broke up in the first place. I was actually expecting Yoshino to tell Akio what kind of measures she would took if she truly fell in love with someone again. Be it choosing to stay with him or leave him. By the way, since she said it's a long distance r/s again, she probably didn't took up the offer of being a T.A in Kisarazu. Oh and that little panel was Akio's friend. |
live2winAug 28, 2014 3:30 AM
| I agree live2win. Kio Shimoku just hand waved over the whole Hasegawa incident. No growth, no movement, just sheer stagnation. Worst ending ever. Are we really to believe Akio is so fudging randy that he can't keep it in his pants and has to get back together with Yoshino so he can have sex? Is Yoshino so self absorbed and narcissistic to believe that they broke up over something dumb? Are you fudging kidding me. Someone should take a gun and shoot both these characters. It would be the merciful thing to do. Kio Shimoku could have told a better story. He could have explored the idea of couple breaking up. But not for the love of god over the stale idea of "long distance." You know what would have been better - a couple living together and breaking up because they don't spend enough time together. That's a real story, and an ironic one. But what we have here is simple, mental masturbation. Empty calories. Nothing meaningful. No character develop, no real plot and incredible weak and sophomoric exposition. Kio Shimoku tries to justify the actions with a lot of long winded dialogue/monologue but he fails. The actions don't fit and the plot doesn't work. It's too shallow. A cup of serious weak tea. |
live2win said: They said they were better prepared this time but it actually amounts to nothing. I guess by prepared they meant they can reasonably expect what's going to hit the fan if they broke up again. Right from the start, Yoshino was the one initiating contact. She was the more desperate party to get back together with Akio although the part where Akio shouted instinctively 'Don't come back' shocked her and she tried helplessly to defuse the situation as a joke. However, gradually during their phone conversation, Akio goes back to be a doormat and Yoshino sense it. Basically lowering himself to ask Yoshino out first which is ideal for her since she's such a prideful person. This is why once Yoshino sees Akio was a willing party too, she herself goes back to the 'rational' figure of the relationship. Her figure of speech becomes more authoritative and not as nice as before. It's not a bad thing since this is probably closer to her natural self. She also laid down the boundaries, reminded Akio to think hard about what they have been through, their current circumstances and to take it slowly. While I found this tidbits was interesting and true to some extent, I just can't help but to feel disappointed with Akio because at the end of the day, his reasoning to go back with Yoshino was simply sex. What happened to the lesson learn from Yoshimura? Akio clearly replied to Yoshino that he didn't thought of it too deeply of their r/s in the future. What makes this matter worst was Yoshino didn't say a single shit about Hasegawa incident besides dismissing as a 'dumbest thing imaginable'. It's not that I feel that Yoshino isn't putting any effort to make the 2nd time works, she was, and thought hard about it. She even attempt to inquire about Yoshimura to learn more about what Akio has been through and his state of mind. It's just that they didn't address the reason they broke up in the first place. I was actually expecting Yoshino to tell Akio what kind of measures she would took if she truly fell in love with someone again. Be it choosing to stay with him or leave him. By the way, since she said it's a long distance r/s again, she probably didn't took up the offer of being a T.A in Kisarazu. Oh and that little panel was Akio's friend. While it seems to me that they have sort of got back together I really don't see any possibility of this relationship lasting as presented. Akio still loves Yoshino and is willing to be treated as a verbal doormat once again, and Yoshino loves only herself. I would have rather the manga ended with them agreeing to go their separate ways as the way things are presented things will slowly drift until one (hopefully Akio) finds someone who they like. But seriously Yoshino just comes across as a bitch who really hasn't changed. I'm not sure what the whole point of this was, especially with the random 'power of words' discussion. Also did 'finger wizard' really not know that Yoshino had the hots for him? Was he just playing her just for the kick of having a young 20 something flirting with him??? He needed a knife as much as Yoshino! |
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scruffykiwi said: Still Yoshino was as bitchy as normal. I don't think there was even an apology from her about her behavior! I would have rather the manga ended with them agreeing to go their separate ways as the way things are presented things will slowly drift until one (hopefully Akio) finds someone who they like. I'm not sure what the whole point of this was, especially with the random 'power of words' discussion. RightSaidFred said: Kio Shimoku just hand waved over the whole Hasegawa incident. No growth, no movement, just sheer stagnation. Worst ending ever. Kio Shimoku tries to justify the actions with a lot of long winded dialogue/monologue but he fails. The actions don't fit and the plot doesn't work. live2win said: They said they were better prepared this time but it actually amounts to nothing. I guess by prepared they meant they can reasonably expect what's going to hit the fan if they broke up again. What makes this matter worst was Yoshino didn't say a single shit about Hasegawa incident besides dismissing as a 'dumbest thing imaginable'. . I think everything that needs to be said about this series was said with my sudden silence as it continued being translated. I just didn't want to talk about it any more. To begin with it was a combination of rage and utter disgust that almost forced my hand--making me post in practically every chapter discussion thread. Yoshino's character and a relationship with such a strong base being butchered just so the author could enjoy torturing his characters and fans upset me in a way reading a comic rarely does. But then I just stopped caring. I became indifferent. It got to the point where I was willing Akio on to bang Yoshimura, just so I could get some form of male satisfaction out of the series. And that's just sad on MANY levels when this began as a romance manga where cheating was out of the question... yet I ended up hoping Akio would bang every 2D chick OTHER THAN Yoshino. I was left simply waiting for it to be over; similar to how Yoshino started viewing sex between Yonensei and Gonensei. It was OBVIOUS how it would end: 'After many hardships and separation, the two worked over their issues and reunited. THE END'... except, what actually happened was Yoshino, out of nowhere, decided she needed her doormat back due to boredom / loneliness, so she phoned Akio and acted all nice-insecure. BUT THEN, sickeningly, once Akio took the bait, that was that: Yoshino was again the anti-sex bitch incarnate; using her vagina (even though she looked increasingly like a male by the end) as bait to manipulate Akio to her whims. And Akio was so pathetic he quickly resorted to BEGGING to see her again--not even needing an apology, or pointing out to Yoshino just WHY they split in the first place. Live (breaking Yoshino's actions down), Fred (pointing out the babbling-rambling nature of the pointless dialogue, as well as the pointlessness) and kiwi (the relationship won't last) say it all between them: there was no growth or progression; no lessons learned. It ends as it started - with the long distance drama card - and even that will end the same way. Yoshino was portrayed as a manipulative sociopath and the last few chapters only rammed home the point that she's still the same empty bitch she was when she revealed all in the hotel room. In the case of Akio I'd hoped he'd learned his lesson - that crazy bitches and relationships based on sex are a NO - but he reverted back to how he began with the slightest of nudges from Yoshino. I'm just as baffled as Fred is over WHY the author did this. Akio could have been any other lazy-slacker-idiot male lead and there was no need to transform Yoshino into a monster. JUST MAKE ANOTHER SERIES, INDEPENDENT OF YONENSEI! At least then there'd be no affection for a pre-established romance. Even then it'd still be a question of *WHY!?* when he could've made a romance about being apart yet together that made you care and understand. All I got from this series is that A) Yoshino's the worst kind of person, B) Yoshimura's the best kind of sadistic slut and C) Akio deserves to be treated like a pussy-whipped slave. If not for my interest in Yoshino's pure selfishness and the mechanisms behind her actions, even 4/10 would be too high of a score. Thanks to Spore for translating it but fuck this series. That's all I have to say. The author learned his lesson when he moved over to otaku culture content with Genshiken, clearly, but any author that creates 5vols of something like this either had problems at the time or detests people just as much as Yoshino. In fact, I think Yoshino was used to voice his own thoughts. That's my only explanation for why she rambled about law, WORD POWA and people to such an extent. PS: lol @ my 'Finger Wizard' name catching on. Reminds me of when I renamed Schniezel (w/e) from Code Geass 'Snigger' because I couldn't spell his name... and still can't. That's one laugh reading this series has provided... PS2: As for what Finger Wizard's deal was, I think Fred covered this before: his character was never fleshed out. A plot device designed to trigger finger lust in Yoshino and break-up drama. I think the author was just pulling out of his arse in an incoherent manner. At best he was trying to scare Yoshino off with his son but any normal person would avoid 1-on-1 situations with women half their age when married in the first place. |
AironicallyHumanAug 28, 2014 6:13 PM
AironicallyHuman said: I'm just as baffled as Fred is over WHY the author did this. Akio could have been any other lazy-slacker-idiot male lead and there was no need to transform Yoshino into a monster. JUST MAKE ANOTHER SERIES, INDEPENDENT OF YONENSEI! At least then there'd be no affection for a pre-established romance. Even then it'd still be a question of *WHY!?* when he could've made a romance about being apart yet together that made you care and understand. All I got from this series is that A) Yoshino's the worst kind of person, B) Yoshimura's the best kind of sadistic slut and C) Akio deserves to be treated like a pussy-whipped slave. If not for my interest in Yoshino's pure selfishness and the mechanisms behind her actions, even 4/10 would be too high of a score. Thanks to Spore for translating it but fuck this series. That's all I have to say. The author learned his lesson when he moved over to otaku culture content with Genshiken, clearly, but any author that creates 5vols of something like this either had problems at the time or detests people just as much as Yoshino. In fact, I think Yoshino was used to voice his own thoughts. That's my only explanation for why she rambled about law, WORD POWA and people to such an extent. His works in the 90s are mostly like this, there's a huge contrast between these and those in the 00s. You can feel the sense on uncertainty in his shit-happens-life-goes-on manga in that era. I think it reflected more on his anxiety with relationship and his rather bleak outlook of life. I feel to some extent Hiroki Endo was similar but he handled this way better in his stories. |
live2winAug 28, 2014 6:55 PM
| @AironicallyHuman As always I love your comments. You give voice to what we all feel. FYI I was hoping that Akio and Yoshimura worked out, not so much he marries her but that they carry on in a relationship; and that would burn Yoshino. But the fact that he couldn't grow from that encounter showed you just how much the author wanted Akio to fail. I suppose the plus side of reading this trash is coming cross such insightful and interesting comments. I think I was more interested in reading what people had to say more than reading the story itself. Sad. Everyone made it more bearable. Glad you came back one more time. Cheers. |
RightSaidFredAug 29, 2014 11:22 PM
live2win said: His works in the 90s are mostly like this, there's a huge contrast between these and those in the 00s. I feel to some extent Hiroki Endo was similar but he handled this way better in his stories. Are his earlier works, other than Yonensei/Gonensei, not listed on MAL? I remember you mentioning/linking to an afterward for a title I don't remember seeing on his MAL page. I also recall reading his Yonensei afterward - I think - and being confused over what earlier volumes he had released before it. Not that I'm exactly eager after Gonensei; just curious. Endo's short collection, Tanpenshu, blew me away. The two-part 'Platform' affected me like little else has... in a more positive way than Gonensei. It was even more fucked up - the lead getting NTR'd as the love of his life from pre-teen years became willing prostitute for his gangster father - but it struck a chord with me. It portrayed human ugliness and failings in a believable yet nihilistic way... as opposed to Gonensei's pointless babbling. Just FYI, since you mentioned Endo and I agree with the comparison, as well as the mental state of the authors back then: http://myanimelist.net/blog.php?eid=49742 http://myanimelist.net/blog.php?eid=51195 RightSaidFred said: FYI I was hoping that Akio and Yoshimura worked out, not so much he marries her but that they carry on in a relationship; and that would burn Yoshino. I suppose the plus side of reading this trash is coming cross such insightful and interesting comments. I think I was more interested in reading what people had to say more than reading the story itself. Sad. Everyone made it more bearable. Glad you came back one more time. Cheers. I don't know what I wanted from Yoshimura as far as Akio goes. It was made clear by her previous actions that she'd lure him in then leave him in despair. That was her MO: like a praying mantis that devours her mates. I assumed she'd troll Akio by pretending to by pregnant, just for the sake of being sadistic, but instead she just took her leave... after one last blowjob that illustrated Akio's sex>brain failings surprisingly well. I agree it would've been nice if both characters grew as people, slapping Yoshino in the face as a consequence, but decent characterisation was never what Gonensei was about. Like you said: the author WANTED his characters to fail. He even ended it in a way that made it clear they would continue to fail. There isn't any positivity to be drawn from the characters' actions. No doubt Live is right about the work reflecting the author's mind and feelings at that time. It wasn't a series for his readers; it was a way for him to vent. Yeah, that's what I started to looking forward to as well: seeing chapters go up and feeling refreshed after reading, knowing most others shared my views and would break it down to highlight the bullshit. Weird so many people decided to post for a series with... 22-23 ratings. Even after finishing. ANYWAY, sorry for never responding to older messages. I ran out of motivation like I said and it'd be like beating a dead horse now. Hope to see you and your Ein avatar around again sometime, as well as Live's informative rambling. |
AironicallyHumanAug 30, 2014 11:07 AM
AironicallyHuman said: Are his earlier works, other than Yonensei/Gonensei, not listed on MAL? I remember you mentioning/linking to an afterward for a title I don't remember seeing on his MAL page. I also recall reading his Yonensei afterward - I think - and being confused over what earlier volumes he had released before it. Not that I'm exactly eager after Gonensei; just curious. Endo's short collection, Tanpenshu, blew me away. The two-part 'Platform' affected me like little else has... in a more positive way than Gonensei. It was even more fucked up - the lead getting NTR'd as the love of his life from pre-teen years became willing prostitute for his gangster father - but it struck a chord with me. It portrayed human ugliness and failings in a believable yet nihilistic way... as opposed to Gonensei's pointless babbling. Just FYI, since you mentioned Endo and I agree with the comparison, as well as the mental state of the authors back then: http://myanimelist.net/blog.php?eid=49742 http://myanimelist.net/blog.php?eid=51195 There are not on MAL, you can probably find some of them on BakaUpdate. I just feel that his post 00s works are much more light-hearted in nature. Haha, I think you forget it was through 'Platform' that I first interacted with you. It's probably one of those threads in MAL where you comment on the manga list of the poster above you. I read that blog of yours long ago! |
| Well, I'm glad they're on their way to getting back together. But to be honest I like to see more concrete endings rather than open ones, especially when it comes to romance. I think however that they are now going into this new relationship between them with more maturity and understanding of how difficult long-term relationships, especially during that time period, can be. I think that this time around, they can last. Yoshino has settled down, and I think she realises her feelings and how comfortable she is with Akio. Akio too is starting to understand that relationships are just more than sex. Like Yoshino said, love and attraction need to be a balance of rationality and desire/feelings. You can't lean in too much into one direction. I was also quite confused about the second-to-last page panel of someone having sex since the guy looks so much like Akio, but after looking closer I think it's Akio's friend who's name I forgot and his girlfriend Naoko. All in all, it was pretty okay. The ending salvaged it. Reading through the middle part was really hard. It really put me in a bad mood and in a horrible headspace, specifically Yoshino falling for that guy and just leaving Akio to dry. But the ending was pretty okay, somewhat cathartic. 7/10. |
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